Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: The Car Situation in Europe

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,331

    The Car Situation in Europe

    All the Euros, I've read about half of the new issue of EVO and it sounds like the performance car industry is on the verge of a crisis. Fleet averages of 250g/km by 2010 in Belgium, 950 British Pounds tax on any car that emits more than 255g of CO2 per year. It sounds like anything more powerful than a Smart is about to be banned or taxed to ridiculous levels. Is this true? Is it that bad?

    What is it that seems to have the lunatics so up in arms? Is it the speeding? The flashiness or are they really dumb enough to think these new regulations will really make a difference?

    Finally, what cars seem aggravate the lunatics the most? I know SUVs, particularly Land Rovers drive them nuts, but what else? Supercars like Ferrari and Lambo? Sports cars like Porsche and 350Z? High-end luxury cars like the SL and M6? Hyperluxury cars like Rolls-Royces and Bentleys?
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    931
    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    All the Euros, I've read about half of the new issue of EVO and it sounds like the performance car industry is on the verge of a crisis. Fleet averages of 250g/km by 2010 in Belgium, 950 British Pounds tax on any car that emits more than 255g of CO2 per year. It sounds like anything more powerful than a Smart is about to be banned or taxed to ridiculous levels. Is this true? Is it that bad?

    What is it that seems to have the lunatics so up in arms? Is it the speeding? The flashiness or are they really dumb enough to think these new regulations will really make a difference?

    Finally, what cars seem aggravate the lunatics the most? I know SUVs, particularly Land Rovers drive them nuts, but what else? Supercars like Ferrari and Lambo? Sports cars like Porsche and 350Z? High-end luxury cars like the SL and M6? Hyperluxury cars like Rolls-Royces and Bentleys?
    It would be nice if they made exceptions for low volume car makers like Ferrari, Rolls, even BMW and Mercedes which make their money off these kinds of vehicles. They definately have the potential to hurt Germany's car manufacturers in particular but then again they have adapted well to changes in the past.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    you can have a C6 that produces 175 g/km, does 0-60 in 9 seconds and has a 140 mph top speed. An ideal travel companion.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    33,489
    Thing is those the cars that are more heavily affected are going to be purchased by people with higher incomes and therefore less affected by the higher taxes.

    On the other hand that forces manufacturers to be clever and try new and innovative tecnologies, which can only be a good thing. They are also going lighter (Renault Laguna, Seat Ibiza for isntance) which not only results in better fuel consumption but better performance and handling too.
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    you can have a C6 that produces 175 g/km, does 0-60 in 9 seconds and has a 140 mph top speed. An ideal travel companion.
    For performance with frugality go BMW

    The 530d produces 170g/km and does 155mph and 0-60 in 6"6 seconds.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    For performance with frugality go BMW
    Nic happens to like a C6, possibly also because it is not available in the USA
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    For Tax Purposes, Cayman Islands
    Posts
    14,579
    Any crisis involving fuel or emissions leaves the industry with greater targets to reach. and Ingenious solutions are found.

    And Plus, it gives the lightweight sportscar a second birth, which can only be a good thing.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Thing is those the cars that are more heavily affected are going to be purchased by people with higher incomes and therefore less affected by the higher taxes.
    yes, the Catch 22 situation. The fact that you pay for causing environmental damage, does that also give you the right to do it?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    439
    Nød lærer nøgen kvinde at spinde.
    A danish saying. It means
    Need teach naked woman to spin (make clothes)

    Im sure they will find a way!, We know Diesel can perform, so maybe a new generation of super Diesel cars

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,331
    None of you seem to be worried. However none of you have addressed the issue of fleet averages. Particularly since they don't seem to be willing to make exceptions for smaller car companies, companies like Ferrari and Aston Martin could face the most serious trouble since theoretically Porsche, Lambo and Bentley can piggyback off VW, SEAT and Skoda. However, piggybacking might not even be an option since at one point in EVO they mentioned Porsche might not be able to sell cars in Europe anymore.

    Furthermore we are all aware here this is whole thing is silly because over 80% of the greenhouse gases emitted are done by manufacturing and airplanes anyway?

    Finally, none of you has stated which cars in Europe seem to stir the wrath of the environmentalist the most?
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    439
    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    Finally, none of you has stated which cars in Europe seem to stir the wrath of the environmentalist the most?
    Here in Denmark, the cars that are pointed out to be sinners are the SUV's, especially the Suzuki's and Kia's!
    And like the rest of the world, to many believe that the Toyota Prius is the answer!, which it clearly ain't!
    I still believe the near future still lay in Diesel!, because you cant produce Benzin without producing Diesel.
    And in the far future the cars will be Hydrogen run, maybe even whit it's own electrolyze!(separating Hydrogen from Oxygen), which could produce an forever running car!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    None of you seem to be worried. However none of you have addressed the issue of fleet averages. Particularly since they don't seem to be willing to make exceptions for smaller car companies, companies like Ferrari and Aston Martin could face the most serious trouble since theoretically Porsche, Lambo and Bentley can piggyback off VW, SEAT and Skoda. However, piggybacking might not even be an option since at one point in EVO they mentioned Porsche might not be able to sell cars in Europe anymore.

    Furthermore we are all aware here this is whole thing is silly because over 80% of the greenhouse gases emitted are done by manufacturing and airplanes anyway?

    Finally, none of you has stated which cars in Europe seem to stir the wrath of the environmentalist the most?
    Porsche owns VAG, I would be surprised if they would not find a piggy back there. Ferrari/Maserati could use the Fiat connection. Maybe Aston could join the Tata bandwagon.

    As far as sinners are concerned....the usual suspects. X5/Cayenne/ML/RangeR and the cheaper would-be luxury SUVs. But any measure directly aiming at such cars has been met with the non-discrimination argument.
    Last edited by henk4; 04-15-2008 at 06:25 AM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,331
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    Nic happens to like a C6, possibly also because it is not available in the USA
    To my mind the C6 is the heir to the DS and SM. It's also a car of great beauty, elegance and style. Were I to live in Europe I like to think that I'd have one as my everyday car, while I had an M3, 911 or even F430 for the weekends and trips to Germany.

    To this day most people in the US drive American cars, which tend to be ugly and horrible to drive (with the exception of the Chrysler 300, which is awesome), Japanese cars tend to be better built and nice-er to drive, but are a bit weird looking, which pretty much leaves German cars. I feel like it would be a great service to international relations if normal Americans had the possibility to shop for Fiats, Alfas, Citroens, Renaults, etc.
    "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil! My car gets 40 Rods to the Hogshead and that's the ways I likes it!" -Grandpa Simpson

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
    I feel like it would be a great service to international relations if normal Americans had the possibility to shop for Fiats, Alfas, Citroens, Renaults, etc.
    Probably if "somebody" would pay more attention to the US$ exchange rate, the proposition of European exports might become more attractive....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Leicstershire
    Posts
    213
    There are numerous problems and challenges that the automotive world needs to overcome to meet these new targets. And the Toyota prius is definitely not the answer. It may produce low CO2 emissions but the practically of the car isn’t great especially for families as far as I have seen.

    As mentioned diesel is capable of producing the desired power and economy and this is going to require great investment that I don’t think many of the European companies such as BMW and Mercedes could afford. Yet this is all set to turn around thanks to America.

    The people of America have started to see the potential of the diesel. Many of our European cars can outperform there standard Sedans without the need for a 4 - 5L V8. Even the celebrities are trading in their Prius’s for some of the diesel models on offer> Still diesel isn’t that common in America when we went to Florida only 2 - 3 out of about 30 Stations carried Diesel on their forecourt. Hopefully with the support for diesels coming from Celebrities, Arnold Schwarzenegger and even Hillary Clinton is backing diesel as America's Future in their "Fuel Crisis".

    Once America jumps on board the diesel bandwagon Mercedes, BMW and the likes of Audi have the potential to double their market and expand their field for research and funding which could hopefully allow these emission targets to be met within the next Decade.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dubai, Boarding school in England.
    Posts
    177
    i think thats a bit ridiculous. most people only hear one side of the global warming argument. independent research shows that man only accounts for +/- 5% global warming. also, since the average farm cow emits as much co2 as the average family saloon y rnt farmers charged cow tax? the car industry definitely needs to adapt but cars like the prius (feel queasy just sayingit) are not the answer. new fuels ;however, are. biodesiel and ethanol can power cars as much as or even more than petrol. hydrogen might be promising, but as someone who loves cars, id just miss the sound of the engine too much. i noticed that someone earlier in this thread mentioned that porsche might not even be able to sell cars in europe anymore. despite the fact that this would be a havy blow, porsches biggest market is still the middle east, particularly dubai. having lived there, i know for a fact that most people there, especially the nationals, are only concerned about the environmental issue because then noone will buy their petrol. as a result, they will always buy watever cars they want; which is mostly suvs (landcruisers, cayennes and range rovers) and supercars.
    Last edited by Auxin; 04-15-2008 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Forgot something.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. how to be a ricer
    By C4Power in forum Car comparison
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-03-2009, 05:02 PM
  2. Custom Ferrari
    By Cyco in forum Classic cars
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-07-2007, 02:04 AM
  3. A Thai Sports Car?
    By Mr.Tiv in forum General Automotive
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-02-2006, 12:18 PM
  4. She drives like a Chick
    By Niko_Fx in forum Multimedia
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-20-2005, 06:22 PM
  5. Manual Transmission
    By Orefus in forum Technical forums
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-16-2005, 10:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •