Ferrari boss says sedan out of the question

[fpv_gtho]

a twin-turbo V8 is not that wierd and not that wrong for ferrari

But a twin-turbo V12 is something wrong... What they will have is a car with too much power and too much torque...

It could easily reach 1000-1300 bhp... (The most powerful naturally-aspirated engine found in the Ferrari FXX Evoluzione has 860 bhp)

Even if they will limit the engine to less than 1000 bhp... They will still have too much torque, about 1000Nm or even more... Yeah, i know the top speed will be awesome, it may even hold the record for the fastest production car but we have to remember it needs to go around corners. It would have problems in handling because of too much torque spinning the wheels too much...

You need to talk displacement before you try and establish whether it will have too much power/torque to put down. Cylinder configuration and aspiration type are irrelevant without displacement established.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I coulda predicted this :

I hope they still do V12s. Maybe smaller diplacement like a 3.6 (One-and-a-half F1 V8s stuck together).

bore and stroke are so different from a road going car, even a super cars, that's simply impossible. that's why all F1 engines, when applied to road cars, are usually doubled in displacement.
high performance petrol engine of the lasr gen usually employ a stroke/bore ratio of about 0.8 like the V8 M3, while a F1 V8 has a ratio of 0.4. standard cars has a ratio betqeen 1 and 1.2, just for the record.
road cars achieved a so low figure mainly thanks to direct injection, but tight now they can't move forward enlarging the bore because of the evolution of the combustion in the cylinder. DiesOtto and HCCI engines could help in that but not at the level of a F1 car. F1 engines are something very very different from a road going one, AFAIK there isn't another kind of (car) engine so different from what we usually drive every day.

The problem of having too much torque or power never stopped anyone. MB simply limits the torque in order to save the gearbox and the clutch. Bugatti already uses more than 1000 bhp (the actual figure is about 1060 bhp) and you can drive the Veyron as a huge and heavy gt everyday without any problem. If the problem would be the RWD vs AWD system, well Ferrari already tested successfully an AWD system that should be used on the next 612 and 599, but there are no plans on using it on the next supercar. in any case the (damn) electronic should help to manage the power as it did last years in F1 or GT cars. obviously, you need to take into account the displacement as FPV pointed out.
You can consider the old EB110 as an example, V12 quad-turbo but just a 3,5 liter of displacement. so "only" 610 bhp...


the EB110 has a stroke/bore of 0.7 even being an supercar and having two turbos for each bank and 5 valves per cylinder.

[Kitdy]

Ferrari is going to use an AWD system? I wonder if it's something that the consumer will want in a Ferrari.

Someone mentioned that the Quattroporte sells well, but would it have been wiser to make a Ferrari sedan in the first place to capatilise on the Ferrari name?

As distasteful as a Ferrari sedan or SUV is with the enthusiast crowd, I think it could potentially be a huge cash cow.

[cmcpokey]

cash cow yes, butferrari is very protective of the image of the ferrari automobile. an awd woudl be suprising to me, unless it was the best awd system in the world. the QP is what you woudl get in a ferrari sedan, and i think that has been a big part of the marketing. everybody that buys one knows it has a ferrari v8 in the nose. so its a ferrari without the prancing horse.

[NicFromLA]

^ i disagree if it was a V8, but i do agree in that a V12 with turbo's would be...wierd (wrong?)

My point is that twin (or even sequential) turbos on Ferrari's V12 would allow them to keep the V12 and create and engine that is immensely powerful but at the same time light weight and fuel efficient. And the best part is you can bring back the 250, 275 or 330 names!

[Ferrer]

Ferrari is going to use an AWD system? I wonder if it's something that the consumer will want in a Ferrari.

Someone mentioned that the Quattroporte sells well, but would it have been wiser to make a Ferrari sedan in the first place to capatilise on the Ferrari name?

As distasteful as a Ferrari sedan or SUV is with the enthusiast crowd, I think it could potentially be a huge cash cow.

But that would affect negatively Maserati's sales. Which is something Ferrari doesn't want.

At the same time they protect their image.

[Bleeding Heart]

You need to talk displacement before you try and establish whether it will have too much power/torque to put down. Cylinder configuration and aspiration type are irrelevant without displacement established.

Yeah, i know i forgot about the displacement of the engine but most modern ferraris have V12 displacing 6.0 liters to 6.3 liters... That's why I put the Ferrari FXX there as an example...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Ferrari is going to use an AWD system? I wonder if it's something that the consumer will want in a Ferrari.

Someone mentioned that the Quattroporte sells well, but would it have been wiser to make a Ferrari sedan in the first place to capatilise on the Ferrari name?

As distasteful as a Ferrari sedan or SUV is with the enthusiast crowd, I think it could potentially be a huge cash cow.

AFAIK, it isn't a ground braking system, but up to now they just tested the system (maybe Haldex, but I just can't remember, could be wrong), they didn't tune it since the new 612 still doesn't exist so it would be a little poitless. btw, the next V12 series (both next 612 and next 599) will be based on the California platform, which still AFAIK will handle very well, they were really happy with it.
expect the next 612 in about a year and a half, sort of.

for as regards the sedan, the Quattroporte name exists since almost 40 years, so it was an already established car, no need to use the Ferrari name.
I think all the QP are also quite good cars (yes, even the IV series, I love how it looks and those little turbo engines).

[Kitdy]

But that would affect negatively Maserati's sales. Which is something Ferrari doesn't want.

At the same time they protect their image.

for as regards the sedan, the Quattroporte name exists since almost 40 years, so it was an already established car, no need to use the Ferrari name.
I think all the QP are also quite good cars (yes, even the IV series, I love how it looks and those little turbo engines).

I still think that a Ferrari sedan would sell better and make more money than a Maserati one and I don't think the image damages would hurt Ferrari's sales. Ultimately, Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati and can impact their choices. Mind you, Luca is the Chairman of FIAT and if he says no, then I guess it's no.

No less, would you agree that if the Quattroporte had been developed as a Ferrari project instead it would have been more profitable?

[LeonOfTheDead]

I still think that a Ferrari sedan would sell better and make more money than a Maserati one and I don't think the image damages would hurt Ferrari's sales. Ultimately, Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati and can impact their choices. Mind you, Luca is the Chairman of FIAT and if he says no, then I guess it's no.

No less, would you agree that if the Quattroporte had been developed as a Ferrari project instead it would have been more profitable?

it is a Ferrari project.
right now the two brands are ufficially separated, but actually they still have a great synergy in mechanical parts and design of them.

obviously the same car, being a Ferrari would have a bigger price so bigger profits.

[Bleeding Heart]

it is a Ferrari project.
right now the two brands are ufficially separated, but actually they still have a great synergy in mechanical parts and design of them.

obviously the same car, being a Ferrari would have a bigger price so bigger profits.

In my opinion, Ferrari is still following their Tradition and not making a new reputation... They are still the car manufacturer of Supercars and exotic GT cars and ultimately... F1 cars... It is the purpose of the company... I think profit is still in second place in their minds... They still follow the breeding and tradition of the company since it first came out...

Just an opinion though... Let's not be surpried if they suddenly make a 4-door sedan...

[dydzi]

Ferrari is making lots of money anyways, so why should they bother making cars that may only damage sales of maserati, which still doesn't fulfill the expectations

as to AWD - it's under development and as far i know it'll be put in 612 scaglietti successor

[LeonOfTheDead]

Ferrari is making lots of money anyways, so why should they bother making cars that may only damage sales of maserati, which still doesn't fulfill the expectations

as to AWD - it's under development and as far i know it'll be put in 612 scaglietti successor

and 599 successor too, as I said above. the development has been finished in the summer as far as I know.

for as regards Maserati, its selling numbers are great and the profits are improving as days go by. They had some problem connected with the stopped program of the upcoming Alfa Romeo 169 and next Quattroporte, almost 150 M euro seems to have been spent without any good results, and then the story of the M139 project "stolen" by Ferrari and later known as the California. at the same time, they are continuing using a lot of the Ferrari's engineering and design work, so right now they are becoming a healthy manufactrurer.
It's also a better place to work than Ferrari is. Probably Ferrari's main problem is that it's becoming a huge manufacturer, their market is continuously growing and it is becoming more of an industrial reality than a craftsman one, and this is affecting the factory at the base level, the workers. despite being continuously advertised as the best place to work in the automotive sector, this is not what I hear from people who work there. I suppose they need some more years to switch from the kind of factory they were in the nineties and their more industrial future. let's hope they won't turn into an Italian Porsche.

[Ferrer]

I still think that a Ferrari sedan would sell better and make more money than a Maserati one and I don't think the image damages would hurt Ferrari's sales. Ultimately, Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati and can impact their choices. Mind you, Luca is the Chairman of FIAT and if he says no, then I guess it's no.

No less, would you agree that if the Quattroporte had been developed as a Ferrari project instead it would have been more profitable?

But then what would be the point of Maserati?

Let's remember that Fiat own both Ferrari and Maserati and their goal is to win money with both. One already has massive profits, so they have to take care of the other.

[LeonOfTheDead]

probably Maserati could built a more expensive and luxury sedan based on the new Ferrari platform if they want to fight against AM, Porsche and eventually Lamborghini. the QP is already an awesome car but obviously no one is going to compare it with a Rapide which is supposedly going to have a price four time bigger, or the still more expensive Panamera.