I am not aware of the details of each historic rallye, but I can also imagine that in case of high attrition rates of the AWD cars, the FWD or RWD cars move slowly to the top. (Saying nothing bad about Ragnotti here).
And BTW one of the reasons that modern rallying is less challenging than it used to be is found in the context of road safety. You cannot simply have these things organised on public roads, without having to employ armadas of policemen to (one) protect normal traffic and (two) to keep the idiots from the roads that want to be as close as possible to the cars.
On another note, I am really wondering whether a proper Delta S4 these days would actually be faster than a C4 WRC.
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
On a tight, twisty rally stage, a modern WRC car with its higher torque and vastly more sophisticated 4WD system would be faster than the old Group B cars, yet on the more open and faster stages it'd probably fall more to the Group B side.
Life's too short to drive bad cars.
[QUOTE=henk4;842972]And BTW one of the reasons that modern rallying is less challenging than it used to be is found in the context of road safety. You cannot simply have these things organised on public roads, without having to employ armadas of policemen to (one) protect normal traffic and (two) to keep the idiots from the roads that want to be as close as possible to the cars.
and here i was thinking it was just so they could charge us spectators to watch
unless it goes horribly wrong. Portugal springs to mind. It is were the authorities have to act. It is not like a closed circuit where you go at your own risk and where you are permanently reminded that "motorracing is dangerous" We always have to sign a declaration that we acknowledge that and will put in no charges against the organisers in case things go wrong.
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
So Ferrer, what you are saying that no driver will ever be as good as those that raced in the Group B era? What else can Loeb do than win the World Championship five times in a row? Do you want him to remove the turbo and try again? Your adoration for the good old days has played tricks on your mind.
If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.
(Ted Joans)
Agreed. The problem with comparing modern drivers to those of the past, be it the early 20th century with the likes of men braving their lives in cars that can kill you quicker than a blink of an eye, the 50's with the rise of Formula 1, and the 80's with Group B racers, is impossible. The likes of safety and financing have taken over in motorsport and leaves the dream of pitting Fangio, Senna, Schumacher, and Hamilton an automotive enthusiasts unfound dream.
Admittedly, current drivers tend to be less 'manly' and drift more towards the diva side of the spectrum, but their talent is hard to refute. Congratulations to Seb for his 5th straight championship.
Rockefella says:
pat's sister is hawt
David Fiset says:
so is mine
David Fiset says:
do want
If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.
(Ted Joans)
oh, oh, trying to get out of it through semantics. Read your posts again and look at the date you mentioned (1987) and it is clear what you mean. I suppose that those "all time greats" in your opinion are likely to emerge from the ranks of that area....or do you include Vinatier/Nicolas/Elford/Zasada to name a few from the pre turbo/awd area?
It is not Loeb's fault that he was around to compete with "the old time greats" he has to beat the current generation of drivers, and does so consistently and already for five years. Let's call him a "new time great"
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
Of dourse I include Vinatier, Elford, Mikkola, Makkinen and all those. Alpines and Porsches battling with front wheel drive Fulvias and rear wheel drive Escorts. That was proper rallying. 1987 is actually post-Group B era.
In my opinion the Group B era was clearly excessive, especially from 1984 on. Cars had gotten just to performant. Engines advanced clearly but everything else, including safety, hadn't and as a result some really bad accidents happened.
And no it's not Loeb's fault the current situation of rallying. More likely FIA and David Raichards because they decided rallying had to be a spectator and television friendly when it never was. Therefore the slowly phased out what made rallying great. Night stages, long stages, geographically spread rallies, the endurance factor, mistakes and retirements,...
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
You cannot blame Dave Richards for that, as I think you will agree that it is socially unacceptable these days to go for long (night) stages on public roads. (The East African Safari Rallye has not been deleted for nothing and we don't want Gumball nonsense). The current format is the only way to allow Rallye cars (of whatever nature) to battle it out, with the added advantage that a confined area offers much better options for the TV as you mentioned.
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams
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