Toyota Officially World's Largest Carmaker

[Wouter Melissen]

Toyotas have no hint of passin or soul whatsoever, they feel exactly like appliances, like cars that'll only take you from A to B. And that most of all is what I don't like about them.

Isn't that exactly the point of a car? We enthusiasts may have different needs but the masses want a car that works like clockwork every time they need it.

[Ferrer]

Isn't that exactly the point of a car? We enthusiasts may have different needs but the masses want a car that works like clockwork every time they need it.

True, but still when there are others cars that can still do it perfectly but with that extra something, why choose a Toyota?

In fact I've been thinking about it, and I believe this is mainly because of the US and Japan markets, in Europe Toyota doesn't sell that well. The reason for this may be that Japan is Toyota's domestic market (so they buy Toyotas regardless of everything else) and in the US you don't have that much choice in affordable cars (Doge Avenger...?), whereas in Europe there's a massive amount of choice.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

But the reputation for bullet proof reliability and dependability are still there.

I'm sorry to say but I have to agree with Wouter on this - it's all very well and good to justify the 5% chance you'll have a great time with, say, an Italian car so that you put up with faults and unreliability 95% of the time, but most people just couldn't be bothered with that.

They want the car as what it says on the tin - a transportation device. Couple this to decent features (leather, iPod integration) and Pricing and it often becomes an unbeatable package.

Toyotas are well regarded in Australia for their longevity and keen pricing. Granted, they aren't the most interesting vehicle in the world, but I'd like to see your Citroen C-Crosser tackle the Tanami Desert the way a Landcruiser can.

You're also wrong in your assessment on Choice - there is plenty of Choice in the US market - some people actually pay a Premium to stick with Toyota........

It seems you are still coming from the old school of thinking in regards to Toyota - the "it's not as good" field. These days Modern cars are generally within 10% of their class capability, regardless of from what manufacturer you buy.

[Ferrer]

You're also wrong in your assessment on Choice - there is plenty of Choice in the US market - some people actually pay a Premium to stick with Toyota........

Is there? Chevrolet Aveo, Chevrolet Cobalt, million year old Focus and let's not start talking about Chryslers...

With those I'd choose a Toyota too.

On the reliability fron though, what you say may have been true in the past but today a Fiat Panda is as reliable as a Toyota Yaris and a Ctroën C4 will last as long as a Toyota Auris. But even so if I was that concerned about reliability I'd rather a Honda or a Subaru than a Toyota...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The choices of Japanese cars over there are just as good.

Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, Mitsubishi Lancer......

Toyota has a reputation as solid and dependable motoring. Not everyone has the same passion for cars as we do.

[LeonOfTheDead]

although Toyota did loose more money than GM last quarter.

I would say GM didn't have anymore money to loose, but you are right.

True, but still when there are others cars that can still do it perfectly but with that extra something, why choose a Toyota?

In fact I've been thinking about it, and I believe this is mainly because of the US and Japan markets, in Europe Toyota doesn't sell that well. The reason for this may be that Japan is Toyota's domestic market (so they buy Toyotas regardless of everything else) and in the US you don't have that much choice in affordable cars (Doge Avenger...?), whereas in Europe there's a massive amount of choice.

consider a lot of people aren't interested in that extra, because perhaps they aren't into cars, but computers, sports and so on. The fact that Toyota isn't selling that well in EU is also because we don't have so many products from it, the main one being the Yaris and also we are quite afflicted by that illness of buying always the same brands. Even with the Avensis being an excellent choice, the average dude would go for the Passat, or the Croma in Italy, a C5 or 407 in France and so on.
as if the Passat or the 407 had that little extra, as the Croma (I'm not saving the C5 because of Pieter, it has those suspensions, you know).

Is there? Chevrolet Aveo, Chevrolet Cobalt, million year old Focus and let's not start talking about Chryslers...

With those I'd choose a Toyota too.

On the reliability fron though, what you say may have been true in the past but today a Fiat Panda is as reliable as a Toyota Yaris and a Ctroën C4 will last as long as a Toyota Auris. But even so if I was that concerned about reliability I'd rather a Honda or a Subaru than a Toyota...

One thing I noticed is not only that Toyota are more reliable than the average car, but the service you get is excellent too.
For example, if I go to my go to garage, saying the airbag light on the dashboard is on for no reason, they would try (they did) to screw me saying I have to change the ECU.
My cousin (she doesn't know anything about car), went to the garage where she bought her Yaris about a couple of years before.
basically, while she was coming home she missed the ramp of the sidewalk, a she heard a weird noise. that's what she said to the guy at the garage.
they took the car after 10 minutes, checked the whole underbody, the suspension and the tire/wheel, all for free.
another time she wasn't able to turn on the car, and while continuing trying the car sometimes turned on and sometimes not.
she called the garage, they towed the car to their place.
the they after they called, no problems were found, she just wasn't pressing the clutch or the brake pedal while turning on the car in neutral.
again, she didn't pay a single €.

that's a customer service.

[Ferrer]

consider a lot of people aren't interested in that extra, because perhaps they aren't into cars, but computers, sports and so on. The fact that Toyota isn't selling that well in EU is also because we don't have so many products from it, the main one being the Yaris and also we are quite afflicted by that illness of buying always the same brands. Even with the Avensis being an excellent choice, the average dude would go for the Passat, or the Croma in Italy, a C5 or 407 in France and so on.
as if the Passat or the 407 had that little extra, as the Croma (I'm not saving the C5 because of Pieter, it has those suspensions, you know).

But even so, not being an expert doesn't mean you shouldn't or couldn't care about wat you drive.

If really everyone drove Toyotas, then there would be no art, no good restaurants or no fine wines. No I'm not an expert on music or food, but I certainly do enjoy a good meal or classical music.

[Revo]

...If really everyone drove Toyotas, then there would be no art, no good restaurants or no fine wines....

Are you saying that a person who drives a Toyota cannot enjoy the taste of a good wine?

[Ferrer]

Are you saying that a person who drives a Toyota cannot enjoy the taste of a good wine?

Maybe they can't be bothered...

[Kitdy]

In fact I've been thinking about it, and I believe this is mainly because of the US and Japan markets, in Europe Toyota doesn't sell that well. The reason for this may be that Japan is Toyota's domestic market (so they buy Toyotas regardless of everything else) and in the US you don't have that much choice in affordable cars (Doge Avenger...?), whereas in Europe there's a massive amount of choice.

Hyundai Accent? Kia Magentis? We have plenty cheap car selection here - probably not as great as you guys but our cheap cars are cheaper so I guess that's a plus.

Are you saying that a person who drives a Toyota cannot enjoy the taste of a good wine?

He was making what I thought was a rather funny joke.

[MRR]

is anyone surprised?

[roosterjuicer]

for a brief period we had an Mr2 Mk1 in the household. It was really fun to drive, but surplus to requirements.

out of curiousity, what did that have for a motor? when i was a kid i thought that MR2's were sweet cars (the ones before they went to the convertible) were the turbo ones fast at all?

[Matra et Alpine]

Seriously ? THe MR2 turbos were fast and with tweaks are scarily fast Mate has 330bhp Shame he seems to blow hoses, pistons, gaskets on a regular basis -- the error of having a highly boosted engine to get 330 and then having an overboost button

[LeonOfTheDead]

But even so, not being an expert doesn't mean you shouldn't or couldn't care about wat you drive.

If really everyone drove Toyotas, then there would be no art, no good restaurants or no fine wines. No I'm not an expert on music or food, but I certainly do enjoy a good meal or classical music.

indeed what it's nowadays called art is also very arguable, fine wines are overwhelmed by cheap and fake ones, let's not even talk about music and so on.
of course there are still the enthusiasts, but I found them usually a lot superficial, or even selfish, as if they needed something to say they are interested in so to have something to do in their empty and poor lives. strong words I know, but I'm convinced of them even if I think I'm not going to achieve the level of comprehension (for you) I would like.

the point is how life goes on for the majority of people, so the main part of the market, from this specific point of view.
I can consider how people behold at work, school, university. they are usually not interested in how things go, but just that they go, the best they can do is to complain selfishly. There isn't a real interests, behind their words, to change something, to improve or to simply do things as they should, that's to say properly.
so they listen to the music MTV passes, they wear clothes that are cool and in at the moment, they go to the bars and clubs everyone goes, and they buy what everyone buys and, well you got that.
that's why there so much 1-Series and A3 on the road (no offense Albert ), why they all look the same and why there are so many Toyotas globally.
wait...Toyota isn't cool right? no, it isn't, definitely, but the points made above show how, inho, they also aren't very interested by what is available or that they had purchased, they didn't really choose that, the market did. so, being one of them, and being slightly smarter than the average, I would buy something not as expensive as the cool stuff usually are, much more suitable for my needs, and simply. A Toyota, in the end, talking about cars.

then I don't think Toyota are bad at all. They aren't the cup of tea of an enthusiast, but exactly what the main part of car customers need and would be fine with. Some of them, would even deserve something worst considering how they drive, for example.

my two arguable cents.

[Ferrer]

Damiano, I think you are spot on.

Which if you think about it, is quite sad.