Citroën DS19 v Mercedes-Benz 300SL

[apple HEAD]

Thanks. I want a DS. i love Citroens but have yet to accuire a "proper one" as all the ones i currently own are actually made by PSA Peugeot/citroen.

my dream is to own a Traction Avant but i thinK my most realistic first "real" citroen will be a 2CV. (i am young and poor)

A twin engined 2cv6 would be nice

[henk4]

Thanks. I want a DS. i love Citroens but have yet to accuire a "proper one" as all the ones i currently own are actually made by PSA Peugeot/citroen.

my dream is to own a Traction Avant but i thinK my most realistic first "real" citroen will be a 2CV. (i am young and poor)

A twin engined 2cv6 would be nice

Holland is infested with Citroen (DS and other) specialists, but very rarely in RHD.

[apple HEAD]

I feel a little road trip coming on i think i would prefer a LHD as i believe if a car was designed that way it should stay that way.

a good example is the Citroen AX. when they converted it to RHD for the British market it was done in quite a crude way that could be noticed.

they kept the brake master cylinder on the LHD side and used a steel bar to connect the pedal to the master cylinder on the other side of the car. thus reducing Feel

the turning circle also suffered slightly compared to home market models.

[nota]

a pristine DS23 can now command about 40,000 plus Euros, the factory cabriolet go for 3 to 4 times more. Good running sedans may go from anywhere between 15-25. Rough cars can be bought cheap, but can set you back with nasty surprises.
The Benz I estimate at 600-800 Euro with more for the gullwing than the roadster.

Pardon my intrusion...

I've seen much lower comparitive prices in Oz for the big Cits. Eg the most expensive one I've noticed recently was a superbly restored DS23 Safari which lingered for months at AUD$25,000 (12,500 euro). Market prices for a very tidy DS sedan would typically begin at around $12k or so (6k euro)

Btw last week an associate noticed a local Gullwing that had been converted to r/h/d. I dread to think how this was achieved (considering the inclined motor etc) and its also what you might deem a 'brave & courageous' move by the owner on something so valuable

[Kitdy]

this is all far too reasonable..top speed rulezzzzz

Is it as fun to drive as a sportscar, even one with a crap suspension?

I would doubt it - forget top speed.

The DS may well be the thinking man's car but the SL the daredevils' choice so to each their own.

I'm no daredevil but when it comes to cars I am.

[Ferrer]

Is it as fun to drive as a sportscar, even one with a crap suspension?

I would doubt it - forget top speed.

The DS may well be the thinking man's car but the SL the daredevils' choice so to each their own.

I'm no daredevil but when it comes to cars I am.

Why do you always associate performance with enjoyment?

Is it so hard to understand that there's life after performance?

[Kitdy]

Why do you always associate performance with enjoyment?

Is it so hard to understand that there's life after performance?

No it isn't, but going fast and cornering fast are the things I like - is it so hard for you to accept that there's such a thing as diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks?

I don't like slow cars really - I have driven enough slow cars to be bored of them.

I like a harsh ass ride like a go-kart as it makes mem feel mor eintune with the road - how is the DS's hydropneumatic suspensoin gonan give me that feel? It's gonan feel like I'm floating. No thanks, I felt that as a passenger in my friend's Caddy and despised it. I also like large torquey engines with good throttle response - the DS does not have this.

To be honest, I also don't like the look of the DS at all. I consider it a polarizing design that's love or hate and I hate it. I do however consider the SL one of the most beautiful cars ever made, and I don't think it's polarizing.

What I do appreciate the DS for and what I'm learning about more in this thread and on this site is it's amazing technological innovations - however, it's just not the car for me.

I understand why the DS is yours and henk's and many other's choice, but can you understand why the SL is mine?

[Ferrer]

No it isn't, but going fast and cornering fast are the things I like - is it so hard for you to accept that there's such a thing as diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks?

...

I understand why the DS is yours and henk's and many other's choice, but can you understand why the SL is mine?

I have no problem at all about what you like. As you say, each to his own. I agree entirely with that.

However, you answered what was (at least in my view) a pretty funny comment by Pieter. Why? Did you feel attacked by it? And if you did, why so?

I understand performance. I like performance. But there are many other things other than peformance. Some you may prefer other you won't. But doesn't meant you can't respect them?

Bear in mind I'm not saying that to you as a personal remark. I prescisely did this comaprison because I wanted to have an interesting discussion. Two very different cars that followed similar routes to achieve very different results at the same time.

And yet we get people, saying it's the SL and implying that if you choose the DS you must have your head examined? Why? Are they afraid of a good debate? Or maybe they are afraid of people that think differently?

At the end of the day there's no better or worse. Everyone can have his opinion and everyone should have his respect, either if you agree or not.

[Kitdy]

I have no problem at all about what you like. As you say, each to his own. I agree entirely with that.

However, you answered what was (at least in my view) a pretty funny comment by Pieter. Why? Did you feel attacked by it? And if you did, why so?

I understand performance. I like performance. But there are many other things other than peformance. Some you may prefer other you won't. But doesn't meant you can't respect them?

Bear in mind I'm not saying that to you as a personal remark. I prescisely did this comaprison because I wanted to have an interesting discussion. Two very different cars that followed similar routes to achieve very different results at the same time.

And yet we get people, saying it's the SL and implying that if you choose the DS you must have your head examined? Why? Are they afraid of a good debate? Or maybe they are afraid of people that think differently?

At the end of the day there's no better or worse. Everyone can have his opinion and everyone should have his respect, either if you agree or not.

I dunno, I sorta was annoyed at henk's comment (I think he has mocked me in past too) but more annoyed that he was inferring that people were voting for the SL sheerly because of performance (I had asked about top speed earlier - it was a stupid question by me but I was just wondering). It's been a while since this thread was on fire and I can't recall if the debate has been good but this dialogue between you and me now is good and civilised and entertaining so I am glad we are having it.

This is constructive and I believe, intelligent. However, this site is largely populated by European sports car fans so it's no surprise the the SL is wining in voting and the comments are somewhat not a surprise, if this helps answer your question about people thinking differently.

[Rockefella]

The real question is: Why is the GT-R not in the poll?

[henk4]

Pardon my intrusion...

I've seen much lower comparitive prices in Oz for the big Cits. Eg the most expensive one I've noticed recently was a superbly restored DS23 Safari which lingered for months at AUD$25,000 (12,500 euro). Market prices for a very tidy DS sedan would typically begin at around $12k or so (6k euro)

Holland is after France the country with most DS followers. Prices have gone through roof. On the other bringing a DS from Australia to Northern Island could add a little bit to the cost....

[henk4]

No it isn't, but going fast and cornering fast are the things I like

it was already pointed out that fast cornering in the 300 SL can be quite dangerous. For that matter early DS owners had to be warned to that although front wheel grip seemed endless, the car could eventually take a straight line if pushed hard enough.

[Ferrer]

I dunno, I sorta was annoyed at henk's comment (I think he has mocked me in past too) but more annoyed that he was inferring that people were voting for the SL sheerly because of performance (I had asked about top speed earlier - it was a stupid question by me but I was just wondering). It's been a while since this thread was on fire and I can't recall if the debate has been good but this dialogue between you and me now is good and civilised and entertaining so I am glad we are having it.

This is constructive and I believe, intelligent. However, this site is largely populated by European sports car fans so it's no surprise the the SL is wining in voting and the comments are somewhat not a surprise, if this helps answer your question about people thinking differently.

I'm enjoying this as well.

And think about that: being easier to drive and more comfortable, could the DS be as fast or even faster as the SL in normal roads?

[henk4]

Pardon my intrusion...

I've seen much lower comparitive prices in Oz for the big Cits. Eg the most expensive one I've noticed recently was a superbly restored DS23 Safari which lingered for months at AUD$25,000 (12,500 euro). Market prices for a very tidy DS sedan would typically begin at around $12k or so (6k euro)

Btw last week an associate noticed a local Gullwing that had been converted to r/h/d. I dread to think how this was achieved (considering the inclined motor etc) and its also what you might deem a 'brave & courageous' move by the owner on something so valuable

I have checked the Dutch Autotrader site, (not even having an option to select a DS) but a manual ID19 from 1967 is on offer for over 18000 Euro. Admittedly there were several cheaper ones, but as I said a pristine DS23 will command a hefty price.

[Rockefella]

And think about that: being easier to drive and more comfortable, could the DS be as fast or even faster as the SL in normal roads?

On gravel maybe.