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Thread: SAAB sold to Koenigsegg

  1. #121
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    I always though that Saab posted small profits back when it was independent.
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  2. #122
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    There are folks over the web claiming even Koenigsegg wasn't exactly profitable as well, but that the original business of Mr K. (import/export) was covering the costs.

    I think K could have been the real deal for Saab, given they could stay alive as much as it would have taken to transform Saab from an Opel subsidiary in something perhaps more similar to Jaguar, if not even Maserati, considering their sedans.
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  3. #123
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    I think Maserati is aiming far too high for Saab. At most the lower end Jags. Realisitcally, big Cits, Alfas and Lancias.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    This could entirely be the case - maybe I'm not giving Koenigsegg's ownership of Saab a fair shake. But as far as I saw it, their plans were to increase the prices of Saabs and decrease quantity. I for one doubt that this would have been effective in North America where the market is already flooded with luxury vehicles and Saab does not exactly enjoy a great reputation.

    Do you think that Saab's reputation in Europe coulda been turned around fast enough to make it profitable before it was forced itself and potentially Koenigsegg into insolvency?

    You said Saab had never had a positive result in it's history - if this is true, then that pretty much means that even when Saab was a quirky, individual quality company it still didn't make money. Would a return to Saabs former ways and / or a move upmarket really save Saab? Could Koenigsegg with limited resources have made it competitive with the Germans, and in North America, the Japanese? I may not be an industry insider, but I don't think so.

    Do you?

    EDIT: I know you and I have much more limited information than the insiders in this former deal had, but let's say this was your company's money you were using to buy Saab. Would you buy them based on the information given and and track record that Saab has?
    Saab hasn't it's strongest market in NA, but Europe.
    The "marriage" with Koenigsegg could have improved the cars enough to again make it a trustworthy and strong brand, in the upper middle price class.
    Both in reputation and quality. And I think they could have turned it around fast enough to survive. Of course, I am not capable to see into the future, but still believe it could be possible.

    Remember that this deal also contained large loan guaranties to ensure that Koenigsegg had enough resources to make the brand profitable, within their plans. I don't think that they are doing a deal like this blindfolded. There might have been some economic analysis behind this. Most certainly done by people who have some experience with this sort of things..

    I don't hope that Koenigsegg was planning to go back to the pre GM way Saab was running things, cause that would be plain stupid. As I said, and you repeated, they hadn't been making money.. There is not only one way to make a quality car, with it's soul and identity intact.

    If Saab could ever compete with german/french/japanese etc. cars.
    In volumes no, but in quality, yes. Again, hard to see into the future, but I think they could reach profitable sales numbers, both in Europe and NA.

    If I had the right people around me, and the deal that I was aiming for, I would certainly do a deal like Koenigsegg has been up to.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I think Maserati is aiming far too high for Saab. At most the lower end Jags. Realisitcally, big Cits, Alfas and Lancias.
    I'd have a look at a 100.000 Saab developed under the Koenigsegg umbrella, and I'd find it more interesting than a 100.000 Jaguar developed by Ford.
    Surely they couldn't match the performance of the QP, but that's the kind of vehicle, market and price they should have looked at for their flagship. I'm not sure if I'd have developed a new 93, maybe something in that segment but a bit more luxurious and exclusive (no X-Type).

    I'd aimed high, that's for sure.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I always though that Saab posted small profits back when it was independent.
    You may be right about that. There was never much profit, or losses.
    I saw a figure of that someplace, but can't find it right now.
    A zero profit company as we say here. Back then Saab also was a institution for the country of Sweden, contributing with work for the people, and reasonably priced cars for the people. Like Volvo also once was.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    I'd have a look at a 100.000 Saab developed under the Koenigsegg umbrella, and I'd find it more interesting than a 100.000 Jaguar developed by Ford.
    Surely they couldn't match the performance of the QP, but that's the kind of vehicle, market and price they should have looked at for their flagship. I'm not sure if I'd have developed a new 93, maybe something in that segment but a bit more luxurious and exclusive (no X-Type).

    I'd aimed high, that's for sure.
    I don't know, being a front wheel drive company rather limits the possibilities in my opinion. Yes they can go four wheel drive, but I don't know I'm still not quite sure. However as a quality alternative in the D and E segment (from 30 to 60 grand ), there I could see future.
    Quote Originally Posted by LotusLocost View Post
    Back then Saab also was a institution for the country of Sweden, contributing with work for the people, and reasonably priced cars for the people. Like Volvo also once was.
    Like so many other companies, as Alfa Romeo, Lancia, BMW,... and then they became what we today know as premium brands. Sometimes I wonder if it could've stayed that way.
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  8. #128
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    I suppose the new management could have even made room for a limited production rwd platform (heck, even MG-Rover managed to do that before dying).
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    I suppose the new management could have even made room for a limited production rwd platform (heck, even MG-Rover managed to do that before dying).
    I wasn't implying that it's not possible, just that it wouldn't be very Saabish.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  10. #130
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    That was surely part of the Reason MG died. diverting seriously required funds for Follies of engineering that had no sale potential.

    This is a disappointing outcome for Saab but it's better they try and find someone else than a company that can't afford to keep them and their parent alive.

    Maybe some things aren't meant to last forever.....
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  11. #131
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    Actually MG-Rover was already dead when that car came out, and I'd say the rwd 75 diverted a few money compared to what was required to run the and refurbish the whole company.
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  12. #132
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    This blog post from Motor Trend thinks that the next step is insolvency for Saab.

  13. #133
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    I'm not going to speculate in what will now happen to Saab.
    But it's speculated (from GM sources) that Koenigsegg pulled out of the deal, because there had been so much technical problems/difficulties with the shared Insignia platform and components who was going into the new 9-5. Also after looking closely to the hasty construction Saab has done of the new 9-5 they see trouble in the horizon with poor Opel components in a hasty designed "savior"..

    It's also said from different economists that Koenigsegg Group is in financial trouble, seeing a cost of about 3,5 million euros so far, to try to make this deal with GM.

    Koenigsegg Group themselves say that time was running out, and that's the reason for pulling out. The absolute deadline of 30. Nov. was very critical for the whole deal. As long as the deal is not completed they can't start the work of turning this around..

    GM says that if this deal did not happen, Saab is without a future, in same manner as Saturn...

    So, who is talking the truth? Maybe we will get some answers within the next few days.

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