Cash For Clunkers

[LTSmash]

The new government-to-citizen subsidy program is out an about.

Your thoughts.

[f6fhellcat13]

My father might try to take advantage of it to trade in the now-dead Escort for a new car of some sort.

Unfortunately it has been executed in a pretty half-assed manner, so they've already run out of money.

[Bob]

I'm against it- we don't need to prop up the auto industry, we need to shrink it. Using tax money to pay auto workers of companies that should have folded is just retarded.

secondly it's bad for the environment- new cars cause more damage through their production than they make up for in increased efficiency

thirdly, "efficiency" these days is still a joke. I see new car advertised at 21-27 mpg mostly... my 18 year old camaro with 5 liters and 8 cylinders manages 20 city, 30 highway. so honestly, what progress have we made?

finally, with the state of american car companies a large percentage of people WILL be buying imports, for one reason or another (and even "our" cars often aren't made here) so why are we wasting taxpayer money supporting other countries auto industries?

oh, and since I most certainly cant afford a new car, and refuse to take out loans i can't afford (hmmm, i wish more people thought like this) i will get none of this money... essentially i'm being robbed to support companies that i think should collapse and people who have more money than me. great

[LTSmash]

I find it similiar to sub-prime. Giving money out of thin air to buy a more expensive car.

[RacingManiac]

Cash for Clunkers Numbers Are In; Ford Focus Tops Sales - Cars - MiamiHerald.com

Your 18 years old Camaro is an exception I guess.....

The production environmental footprint I am not exactly sure, I suppose its possible that it maybe the case, since much of the supplier's supplier might be located elsewhere like China or Mexico, at the same time though the plant footprint of today is much less than that of the past, since much of the supply base required by OEM to meet certain standard, and that would've governed some of the environmental aspect of the plants themselves. Whats for sure is that much of the cars nowadays are recyclable....

[092326001]

I don't like the idea much, could be potentially throwing away classic cars

[pimento]

...essentially i'm being robbed to support companies that i think should collapse and people who have more money than me. great

They already have collapsed.. now you're helping them rise from the ashes.

I agree that it's misguided on environmental grounds, that's just an easy way to get the general public to think it's a good thing. What it really does is support the factory workers and whatnot who are building the new cars. I thought there was a provision in there to aim people at the domestics, but if everyone just buys a Camry then at least they're still made in the US.. right?

[Soloracer]

I'm against it- we don't need to prop up the auto industry, we need to shrink it. Using tax money to pay auto workers of companies that should have folded is just retarded.

secondly it's bad for the environment- new cars cause more damage through their production than they make up for in increased efficiency

thirdly, "efficiency" these days is still a joke. I see new car advertised at 21-27 mpg mostly... my 18 year old camaro with 5 liters and 8 cylinders manages 20 city, 30 highway. so honestly, what progress have we made?

finally, with the state of american car companies a large percentage of people WILL be buying imports, for one reason or another (and even "our" cars often aren't made here) so why are we wasting taxpayer money supporting other countries auto industries?

oh, and since I most certainly cant afford a new car, and refuse to take out loans i can't afford (hmmm, i wish more people thought like this) i will get none of this money... essentially i'm being robbed to support companies that i think should collapse and people who have more money than me. great

Ditto minus the camaro

[cargirl1990]

im pretty mixed about it.

[Sledgehammer]

I took a look at what it takes to qualify for this. Its about 100 pages of bullshit to get this. Oh and the government froze it about 4 days ago because they ran out of money for the program.

[wwgkd]

I took a look at what it takes to qualify for this. Its about 100 pages of bullshit to get this. Oh and the government froze it about 4 days ago because they ran out of money for the program.

They just pushed through another $2 billion for this to keep it going. They're talking about a 10% VAT to help pay for some of these new programs.

[Dino Scuderia]

This program is the only one giving the current Administration any positive news...so they are going to extend it for that reason.

In the scheme of things the money was already appropriated for 'stimulus' so it's money that was going to end up on us taxpayers back one way or the other.

And if we need any more money... by god we'll print it.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I don't really see the point TBH.

Propping up industry, maybe. But Ford is proof positive that a properly organised company (well, now, anyway) making cars that people want to buy doesn't need propping up.

Some companies just don't deserve to continue doing business.

[G35COUPE]

I'm against it- we don't need to prop up the auto industry, we need to shrink it. Using tax money to pay auto workers of companies that should have folded is just retarded.

secondly it's bad for the environment- new cars cause more damage through their production than they make up for in increased efficiency

thirdly, "efficiency" these days is still a joke. I see new car advertised at 21-27 mpg mostly... my 18 year old camaro with 5 liters and 8 cylinders manages 20 city, 30 highway. so honestly, what progress have we made?

finally, with the state of american car companies a large percentage of people WILL be buying imports, for one reason or another (and even "our" cars often aren't made here) so why are we wasting taxpayer money supporting other countries auto industries?

oh, and since I most certainly cant afford a new car, and refuse to take out loans i can't afford (hmmm, i wish more people thought like this) i will get none of this money... essentially i'm being robbed to support companies that i think should collapse and people who have more money than me. great

1. I am unsure why anyone would be against a cash-for-clunkers program that already exists in a country like Germany. In fact, foreign auto owners, to include american auto companies, have benefitted from the German cash-for-clunkers program.

Germany's 'cash-for-clunkers' scheme fuels sales of foreign-made cars - Los Angeles Times

2. The program is only bad for the environment because the US has the lowest federal taxes on gasoline than any other Western nation on ths planet. In Europe, it is not unusual to pay as much as $2 or more in taxes alone, on a gallon of gasoline. I mean, the taxes alone on gasoline in Europe can buy my gas in the US. So, emissions wise, because of tax policies, Europe wins in terms of cleaner environment. As you well know, we hate to hear about tax hike in the US, eventhough we all know this reality will one day occur in the US, given our huge deficits and social programs. Its as if we beleive this reality will automatically vaporize and be gone, just because we feel negatively about the idea of tax hikes. See the CNN article below of gas prices.

CNN/Money: Global gas prices

3. As far as efficiencies are concerned, while I agree that tepid progress has been made, modern cars, which have more powerful engines, are relatively more efficient than their 60s and 70s siblings with the same amount of horsepower. Don't forget that the typical muscle car in the 60s and 70s had about 200 - 300 horsepower and was probably netting barely 12 mpg. Today, many have daily drivers, that have over 300 horsepower, to include I, and yet, I can speak of achieving, 28 - 29 mpg on the highway when i drive normally. So, progress has been made even if it is not compeling.

4. Living in a global world requires acting in accordance to global traditions. This sometimes means you will support other global actors using domestic policies, in the same way as those global actors will support american companies using their own domestic policies. See the link I provided above, to show how the Germans have supported foreign auto companies, to include american companies, in their cash-for-clunkers program. So, why is it a bad idea to be helpful other nations in a globalized economy?

5. And as far as living within one's means, i personally think that is a good idea, eventhough, we mostly do not follow such precepts in our personal lives.


NB: What bothers me greatly in the US is that misinformation is thrown around so effortlessly that many grasp at such misinformation and run with it as the truth, without doing adequate research on these matters. In addition, we claim to be an integrated nation, whereas, in that process of integration, we have become an increasingly intolerant nation of diverse ideas, people, and activities.

And as we speak of the cash-for-clunkers program, which somes of us in the US are against, the US is currently dealing with another barrage of misinformation campaign about its healthcare system, which while sophisticated, serves less people as a proportion of the population, than any other western nation. Thus, and invariably, it has become expensive and inefficient. Below is a link to a study conducted in 2009 from a reputable source (OECD) on the actual state of US Healthcare system.

http://www.olis.oecd.org/olis/2009doc.nsf/LinkTo/NT00000B6A/$FILE/JT03259332.PDF

Don't take my word for it. Read the links for yourself. My idea of being an american is openness to experience, intelligently going through realistic options, and learning from others when one lacks the skills and information to move forward. My idea of not being an american is shutting oneself off from the truth and from the rest of the world.

[blingbling]

all great empires, whether roman, byzantine, ottoman, sino-mongolic, or english, crumble first from WITHIN