Opinion on the 912E

[LTSmash]

The good part of getting older is knowing all that stuff that used to bother you is pointless.
The bad part is trying to convincing younger types that's the truth.

Very true. My epiphany was after high school graduation and realizing all that superficial stuff does not ,and never did, matter at all.

[henk4]

Yow. I just turned 54 on the 11th.

Ah, that was the important thing that happened on 9/11

Anyway, just wondering how much power loss you have with the Sportomatic, which, IIRC, is an automatic clutch, working on the touch of the gear lever.

and, just asking, was the original 912 built on the SWB chassis? How much did the 912E body cosmetically develop compared to the original? Does it have more than the original 90 of the first series?

[Ferrer]

and, just asking, was the original 912 built on the SWB chassis? How much did the 912E body cosmetically develop compared to the original? Does it have more than the original 90 of the first series?

After the discontinuation of the 356 model in 1965, Porsche was left with the pricey new 911 as their only offering. Fearing that its considerable price increase over the 356 would cost the company sales and narrow the appeal of the brand, a decision was made by executives to introduce a new entry-level model. Built on the 911's chassis and sharing its bodyshell, Porsche was able to offer the 912 for much less than a base-model 911 by using the four-cylinder engine from the 356 rather than the 911's "flat" six-cylinder powerplant and by reducing the number of standard features. The proven reliability of the 356's engine combined with the 911 bodywork and low price made the 912 a very attractive buy to both new and old customers, and it substantially outsold the 911 during the first few years of production: Porsche produced slightly more than 30,000 units during its five-year production run. 912s were also used as police (polizei) cars in Europe, including Targas (Porsche's patented variation of a cabriolet with lift-off folding top, rollbar, and an openable plastic rear window). In April 1967, the Porsche factory's Christophorus magazine noted: "On 21 December, 1966, Porsche celebrated a particularly proud anniversary. The 100,000th Porsche, a 912 Targa outfitted for the police, was delivered."

After updating the 911 line-up to include both a more powerful 911S and a less expensive 911T, Porsche executives began to feel that the 912 had become redundant, that the 911 platform was sufficiently diverse and that pricing had largely come into line with market expectations. Owing to this and the desire to introduce a new model, the 912 was discontinued and superseded as Porsche's entry-level model by the 914 in 1970; a vehicle which Porsche had thought would be less expensive for them to manufacture and sell than the 912.

After a six year absence, the model was re-introduced to North America in 1976 as the 912E to occupy the entry-level position left vacant by the discontinuation of the 914, while the new 924 – the 914's official replacement – was being finalized and put into production. The new 912 featured the "G-Series" 911 bodywork and was powered by a 2.0 L version of the Volkswagen air cooled engine, previously used in late-model versions of the 914/4. 2,099 were manufactured in total, and were not officially sold outside the United States.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_912]Porsche 912 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The original 912s were basically 911s with flat fours and they underwent the same changes endured by the 911. So from 1965 to 1968 the 912 had the short wheelbase chasis and only in its final year, 1969, the 912 got the LWB chasis. The 912E got the engine from the late USDM 914/4, which had 88bhp.

[csl177]

Ah, that was the important thing that happened on 9/11

Anyway, just wondering how much power loss you have with the Sportomatic, which, IIRC, is an automatic clutch, working on the touch of the gear lever.

and, just asking, was the original 912 built on the SWB chassis? How much did the 912E body cosmetically develop compared to the original? Does it have more than the original 90 of the first series?

Ferrer covered the 912 nicely, but to answer your question regarding Sportomatic, about 2-4% loss at top speed. You're correct to say it's a manual transmission with an automatic clutch, controlled by a contact switch at the shifter base. Interestingly, it's smoother to drive than a standard transmission, and the S version was slightly quicker (over a standard S) as it's a 4 speed rather than 5. There's also much less wear to the clutch itself... humans slip clutches, servos can't. A high-stall torque converter is used to control the system which is where the small losses are. We have also a '68 T Targa with Sportomatic and it's incredibly dependable... in 5 years and 80K miles it's needed nothing mechanically.

Porsche tested the system hard: Vic Elford won the 1967 Marathon de La Route and crushed the records with one.
Sporto's were accepted in Europe, but not so much in the USA... that "manly men drive sticks" thing.

Anyway, let's encourage LTS' mom to get a car she'll enjoy. A 912E is a good thing.

[Delmaster]

was the original 912 built on the SWB chassis?

Have there been different wheelbases on 911?

[henk4]

Have there been different wheelbases on 911?

yes, in 1968 they changed the rear wheel suspension, which generated a slightly longer wheelbase, within the same body dimensions. It resulted in a less vicious snap oversteer that could really surprise the inexperienced 911 driver.

[csl177]

yes, in 1968 they changed the rear wheel suspension, which generated a slightly longer wheelbase, within the same body dimensions. It resulted in a less vicious snap oversteer that could really surprise the inexperienced 911 driver.

Ah, but in experienced hands so rewarding to drive fast.

Love that line: "less vicious snap oversteer". Like there's a kinder, gentler snap oversteer.

[henk4]

Ah, but in experienced hands so rewarding to drive fast.

Love that line: "less vicious snap oversteer". Like there's a kinder, gentler snap oversteer.

is "correctability" a word? I think in the first versions of the 911 you were almost without a chance, and the later versions offered you a real chance to overcome the perils...to the extent that you could actually enjoy. (I am talking heresay only, never drove either version..)

[Delmaster]

yes, in 1968 they changed the rear wheel suspension, which generated a slightly longer wheelbase, within the same body dimensions. It resulted in a less vicious snap oversteer that could really surprise the inexperienced 911 driver.

Didn't know that. Thank you.
How much difference is between the two wheelbases (mm)?

[csl177]

Yes, correctability works for me. But since mine are all SWB and I prefer them for that quality, the method of control is anticipation.
That, and huge stones. Or confidence that the design really works best that way, take your pick.

Seriously, it takes a different type of driver to mash the throttle when every fiber in your body says lift.
We SWB fans call the technique "das whippen" (apologies for language butchery to our German friends)

Delmaster, the prototype 901 had a 2204mm wheelbase, with front/rear tracks of 1332/1312; the earliest production cars (O and A programme) were 2211 WB, F&R track 1337/1317 O) and 1353/1321 (A) and 1362/1344 (B programme, 14" wheels.)

C programme cars began with 2268mm wheelbase and by late 1972 was 2271mm, where it remained through the 1980s.
So the difference is not much, 57 to (ultimately) 70mm, but combined with track and weight differences the handling trait was somewhat ameliorated. BTW, the 912 handles so well because the engine weighs 150 pounds less; minus those two cylinders at the back of the car, rotation is easier to control with the throttle.

[henk4]

Didn't know that. Thank you.
How much difference is between the two wheelbases (mm)?

about 6 cm.

[Ferrer]

Sporto's were accepted in Europe, but not so much in the USA... that "manly men drive sticks" thing.

And IIRC they were available until the 80's.

[pimento]

Delmaster, the prototype 901 had a 2204mm wheelbase, with front/rear tracks of 1332/1312; the earliest production cars (O and A programme) were 2211 WB, F&R track 1337/1317 O) and 1353/1321 (A) and 1362/1344 (B programme, 14" wheels.)

C programme cars began with 2268mm wheelbase and by late 1972 was 2271mm, where it remained through the 1980s.
So the difference is not much, 57 to (ultimately) 70mm, but combined with track and weight differences the handling trait was somewhat ameliorated. BTW, the 912 handles so well because the engine weighs 150 pounds less; minus those two cylinders at the back of the car, rotation is easier to control with the throttle.

Also the increase was entirely about moving the rear wheels backwards. I believe (at least initially) there was no increase in the overall length of the vehicle.

[LTSmash]

So she met with the owners to take it for a test drive today and says she loves it. She says the owners are very nice people and seem to have taken good care of the car from her perspective. It has a little wear and tear but nothing too bad according to her; apparently, before she inquired, some collector turned it down because of a tear in the leather seats. If the inspection goes all good she'll be writing the check.

I'll post pics when I visit my parents next(assuming everything checks out with the car ).

[Canam fan]

I had a 1974 911 and it was nothing but trouble. However as that was mostly engine issues after taking the car to a local "expert" maybe the 912 is the way to go. Be sure to make sure there is a floor under the floor mats as rust was an issue.