Supercar Information Society

[P4g4nite]

What is a Supercar?

[twistedzonda]

Well, im afraid you thought wrong. I am still here, and by the way, Leon of the deaf - or whatever - what have you got against me?

And also,

A supercar is a vehicle specially designed to be extremely good in every way - performance, handling, power, sound, looks, etc. Due to this fact, many so-called ''supercars'', are in fact, not.

A hypercar is like a supercar, but engineered to the absolute pinnacle of standards. The goal of a hypercar is to be the best in every way - and so, there are actually very few cars that could rightfully be called ''hypercars''. This exclusive club includes:
Koenigsegg CCXR
Mclaren F1
SSC ultimate AERO
,and, of course, the Veyron.

Finally, the purpose of this thread was very clearly stated in my first comment - if you cant understand that - that is your problem, not mine.

[P4g4nite]

So what are the standards of measurement?

You haven't included an STi in your list but I can guarantee you that it would flog a CCXR around a tight, wet (don't get excited, boys) track. Is it then, a Hypercar?

Is an NSX a supercar, was it ever? They were built to a standard that embarrassed Ferrari.

What of an Ultima GTR? It is faster in nearly every way than all of your hypercars although it's interior makes the SSC look luxurious. But then compared to a Veyron, an SSC is little more than a jumped up kit car.

The new Porsche 911 Turbo is one of the fastest cars out there, 3.2sec to 100km and 7:39 around the famous Nurburgring. But thousands will be built compared to the 4 CCXR that are planned and an equally low number of SSC's.

A Nissan GTR is faster than many undisputed supercars as is an Ariel Atom.

And how do you measure "looks" and "sound"? Surely these are completely subjective.

Is heritage an issue? Generally lists of supercars are brimming with heritage and yet it is nearly absent from your list of hypercars, each of them representing an isolated attempt at producing an ultimate car.

[Matra et Alpine]

Before the countach there was the miura

Absolutely, ANY naming of a Countach as a "first" is insane given the Miura

[Matra et Alpine]

Perfromance figures for the last Alpine ? Any comparative track times on the 'Ring or others ??

[cmcpokey]

ok, some information i may want, and since you claim to be all knowing about supercars.. what is the gap on the spark plugs on a Zonda F?

[twistedzonda]

First, of all, i never claimed to know everything about supercars- and you ALL know that.
Secondly, the fact that an STi can paste a CCXR through a wet corner does not mean that it is a supercar - its a upmarket hot hatch.
Thirdly, the fact that an NSX is built to a higher standard than a Ferrari does not make it a supercar - the nsx WAS a Japanese attempt at making a supercar. However, it failed miserably. Yes, it may look good to many people (including me),it may be technically amazing (it is), but you cannot take away the fact that, when it was being produced, it had the same price as an equivalent year Porsche 911, yet it had the same engine specification as a VW Golf R32 - that is certainly NOT impressive. Yes it was developed by Ayrton Senna, yes it did and does still have very impressive technology, and yes, it does have brilliant handling, but these things do not take away from the unfortunate fact that Honda openly admitted - they struggled to sell them.
Finally, p4g4whatever, you said that my list of hypercars did not have ''heritage''...are you mentally sound? You don't think that BUGATTI has heritage?!? Just thought id let you know that Bugatti happens to be the 1922 record holder for the worlds fastest train - 122 mph. They also have the not unimportant title of ''worlds most expensive car'' - a Royale sold for £5.3m at auction in 1986 - the modern equivalent of £9.4m, or roughly $19m. And finally, lets not forget that they did make the worlds fastest car - the Veyron.(until recently anyway).

And cmpokey - i cannot tell you the distance between a zonda f's spark plugs - but i can tell you that they are rhodium.

[f6fhellcat13]

Finally, p4g4whatever, you said that my list of hypercars did not have ''heritage''...are you mentally sound? You don't think that BUGATTI has heritage?!? Just thought id let you know that Bugatti happens to be the 1922 record holder for the worlds fastest train - 122 mph.

Sadly the Veyron is not today's fastest train. The Japanese, who apparently suck at fast stuff, have that honor with a 360-some mph train. (Last I recall, at least.)

[Matra et Alpine]

First, of all, i never claimed to know everything about supercars- and you ALL know that.

NO we don't as we went on yoru own words ....

"don't underestimate my knowledge"

We clearly have a major disconnect and hopefully you can communicate openly to adjust it accordingly.

BTW, what about the Alpine Q ? cos I really woudl love to see some track compaative times ????

EDIT: read latest post ... Which train ? The WR was a 30s design and amazingly was used in France for nearly 20 years !!
I've seen it in a museum -- one UGLY train You got links for a 1922 design ? I'm intrigued -- the railway modellor geek surfaces

PS: Your post looks liek a summary of a google, sorry but maybe give sources for the info you post too ? For cars and supercars in aprticular this link is useful to quote.

[twistedzonda]

Actually, i did not use any ''google searches'' for that info, and also, who cares about alpine??? They are not supercars. Incidentally, i am not a ''train modeling geek'', and your many and varied insults are pathetic and make you sound like big headed teenagers - which is what you probably are.

The purpose of this thread was not to ''trace the origins of the supercar'', or ''defining a hypercar'', or even ''how fast is an alpine?'' - the purpose of this thread is mainly to give helpful answers, mainly focused on specifications, to people who are asking a truthful question - not just some insult with a question mark at the end.

If You (plural) don't like what i have to say, or think i am wrong in my answers to your questions - questions that seem to be deliberately phrased so as to cause insult - questions that clearly have no definitive answer, because they are questions of mainly personal opinion and taste - then kindly remove yourselves from this thread and cut out the ''teen showoffs hour''.

[Kitdy]

tz, check your private messages.

[P4g4nite]

Secondly, the fact that an STi can paste a CCXR through a wet corner does not mean that it is a supercar - its a upmarket hot hatch.

And I agree, but is getting pasted by a common hot hatch an allowance for a hypercar?

Thirdly, the fact that an NSX is built to a higher standard than a Ferrari does not make it a supercar - the nsx WAS a Japanese attempt at making a supercar. However, it failed miserably. Yes, it may look good to many people (including me),it may be technically amazing (it is), but you cannot take away the fact that, when it was being produced, it had the same price as an equivalent year Porsche 911, yet it had the same engine specification as a VW Golf R32 - that is certainly NOT impressive. Yes it was developed by Ayrton Senna, yes it did and does still have very impressive technology, and yes, it does have brilliant handling, but these things do not take away from the unfortunate fact that Honda openly admitted - they struggled to sell them.

I'm not sure you really explained your reasoning very well, are you saying the NSX was too cheap or too expensive? The Golf R32 did not exist when the NSX was first produced and the VR6 is a very very different engine than the C32B, which was uniquely designed for the NSX and only the NSX. Not an honour some of your hypercars have.
It is true that Honda struggled to sell the NSX but that was toward the end of it's 15 year production life, thousands were sold. And again, if selling well is a requirement you'll be losing many other supercars and hypercars from your list; EB110, SSC etc..

So really the NSX was a phenomenal success and even inspired the McLaren F1, which is probably the greatest supercar of all time.

Finally, p4g4whatever, you said that my list of hypercars did not have ''heritage''...are you mentally sound? You don't think that BUGATTI has heritage?

The Bugatti name was resurrected recently to lend artificial heritage to a supercar project, no trace or lineage to it's origin remains. Unlike say, with Ferrari or Porsche where there is a fairly clear link between the origins and the modern company.

You didn't claim that heritage was important, I simply brought it up because supercars are an emotional thing and people tend to value historicity quite highly, particularly when making expensive purchases.

[P4g4nite]

The purpose of this thread was not to ''trace the origins of the supercar'', or ''defining a hypercar'', or even ''how fast is an alpine?'' - the purpose of this thread is mainly to give helpful answers, mainly focused on specifications, to people who are asking a truthful question - not just some insult with a question mark at the end.

Do you have sources other than Google, or access to information better than that which is easily available on this very site?

[clutch-monkey]

first reply was evil, haha
difficult to establish what a supercar is, let alone which car holds the claim of first supercar.
the parameters put forward by TZ seem to preclude a number of 'supercars' from being classed as such

The purpose of this thread was not to ''trace the origins of the supercar'', or ''defining a hypercar'', or even ''how fast is an alpine?'

honestly these are the more pertinent questions since specs and info are readily available, hell this site is a treasure trove for more obscure stuff too.

[Ferrer]

By the way hasn't some Ferrari (250 TR or Spyder California, can't recall) surpassed the Royale's record price?