Summer Vs All Season

[twinspark]

Or spiked tyres in Sweden. I still remember when we went there to watch the Swedish Rally and rented a Volvo which had spiked tyres.

Do you actually mean studded, or really spiked? I wouldn't think spikes are exactly street legal...

We usually drive with normal summer tyres in the summer, and either studded or unstudded winter tyres in the winter. Chains I've never seen. I suppose those unstudded winter tyres are sometimes also referred to as all-season tyres, but as far as I've understood they're not the same as in central Europe, for example. They're legal to use in summer too, but are no comparison to proper summer tyres regarding performance or safety.

[Ferrer]

Do you actually mean studded, or really spiked? I wouldn't think spikes are exactly street legal...

Studded, sorry.

Like these.

[RacingManiac]

I think studded snow is not legal in a lot of places in US/Canada, at least on pavement.

The problem with summer tires on the snow/cold is that their rubber is designed to work a much hotter temperature that they just don't grip as well since tires are designed to flex and the rubber supposed to create interlocking with the surface they are on. Generally dedicated winter snow tire is supposed to have much softer compound and different construction to deal with the cold, plus deeper/wider thread gaps to clear snow/water. Summer tire also tend to have cleaner, larger chunk of tread block for dry pavement to give it more grip, so snow/water won't clear as well and creating chances for skidding/hydroplaning. All season is just in between and works a bit for everything but good for nothing....They are good if you are cheap( like me for the 4 banger Camry that I drive), but they are really "good for no season". RS-As are annoying because they are supposed to be "high-performance all season" and is expensive, but I just find it to be poor in general. The Michelin you mentioned is more of a "dedicated" all season(its available in 215/55 R17?). Probably rides better than RS-A but as such not much grip in general. In my dad's case I usually advise him to change to snow past Oct/Nov just because it gets cold already.

[drakkie]

Get wintertyres and a separate set of summer tyres. Trust me for now. I did a few test on the test track recently. Will post 1-2 of the pictures tonight. Unfortunately I don't have them on my computer at my internship. In slippery conditions the braking distance was more than double. We had Michelin tyres under two identical VW Golf 6's.

It is claimed that at temperatures blow 8 degrees (Celsius of course), they work better than the summer tyres.

It is actually 13 degree Celsius, unless tyre tread is under 5mm. In the last issue of the Autokampioen and the upcoming ANWB Onderweg a comparison test is published. I did the test together with another editor. We went to Lelystad for this and made a dozen runs. If you don't have the publications i can drop by and put on through the letterbox. I take the ferry in your town every day.

Also good reading (Dutch) on winter tyres. Especially the part about the technology behind them is interesting.
http://www.debandenwisselweken.nl/as...pecial2009.pdf
And if you really want to go technical I got a few books on tyre-road surface contact.

[Matra et Alpine]

drakkie, you do test and reach wrong conclusions

Braking distance in damp, wet leaves, blown sand, snow, rain, etc etc all increase braking distance.

The solutino is NOT a definitive have a tyre for each condition.
THe SOLUTION for that is for the drier to drive to the conditions they face adn if that measn slowing down and increasing gap then so be it.

BECAUSE ..... by suggestng it's a "ttyre" choice a s a balck-and-white then we risk the idiot-driver-generation in their Volvo's becoming even LESS aware fo dangers, once they've fitted their "winter" tyres.

For most of us, sensible driving on good condition tyres is sufficient.
ICE is a different matter and the time when choice is a simple fit studs or DO NOT TAKE THE CAR !! Or for most of us , drive very VERY carefully.

SOrry d, but your "trust me" jsut doesn't align with reality

PS: If you get the chance do the test adn do a dry adn wet/codl stoping distance for summer, all-weather an dwinter adn then we'll have useful datapoints

Also having jsut fitted Vredestein "summers" this year then I was shocked at the grip on a codl, wet night.
The spin-turn bit half way round leaving me to do a 3-point turn So ... crudely, sample of one ... Vredestein summers ar ebetter than Migcelin winters

[drakkie]

Offcourse winter tyres are no guaranteed solution. But it surely helps at preventing accidents. Every time a safety device is added to a car, the average driver will feel safer and go faster. There is a fancy name for this, but it must've slipped my mind.

This picture shows a good overview of our test. We did this at a slippery/wet surface. You know, the stuff commonly used on anti-skid schools. Our entry speed was 40 km/h. I was driving the car on the right by the way. About 12m was my braking distance with ABS and ESP turned on. The picture speaks for itself I guess.

If they save just one life, it's allready something worth investing in.

[henk4]

There is a fancy name for this, but it must've slipped my mind.

hubris

[RacingManiac]

Tirerack.com has very useful info regarding a wide range of tires for their desired condition....and they actually do instrumented tests for most of their popular tires...the draw back is that they aren't necessarily from the same test, but there is a pretty wide range of data up there...

[drakkie]

Tirerack.com has very useful info regarding a wide range of tires for their desired condition....and they actually do instrumented tests for most of their popular tires...the draw back is that they aren't necessarily from the same test, but there is a pretty wide range of data up there...

If you like I can send you some tests from ADAC / ANWB on monday. They are in Dutch and German but i guess you can figure out the results. Tomorrow i expect to not be at the office anymore. Got to pick up a Astra in Rüsselsheim. If I manage a swift drive I will post them here otherwise after the weekend.

hubris

ὕβρις in greek. That offcourse. However I was more thinking of the Law of ..... IIRC it was an American who made this.

Edit: I got it. The Peltzmann effect.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Peltzman[/ame]

[Matra et Alpine]

hubris

VOLVO OWNER

they dont' deserve smileys


"Peltzmann effect" ... ove it. Been referred to for centuries and well documented and an American claims it -- 'nuff said guys .. comepnsating for small penises

Drakkie, "If they save just one life, it's allready something worth investing in." ... UNLESS they also KILL hundreds because all those "safer" drivers forget about corners and distance to other cars and stop paying ATTENTION

[coolieman1220]

ended up settling with Contintenal DWS tires. work really well!

[Alastor]

I think studded snow is not legal in a lot of places in US/Canada, at least on pavement.

In the US the law differs from state to state. But for most of the states that 'do' allow studs/chains they are only allowed during the winter months.

From what I read about winter tires, and certain number of cars with studded tires are required to help rough up the ice to give the winter tire rubber something to grip.

[Matra et Alpine]

I prefer tyre suppliers for that advice.
Here dealers tend to stick with what it came with and aren't up to date on the latest availabel rubber and the differing performance.
Oweners clubs are usually much more reliable for advice on rubber as thre is a wide range of owners and most will ahve tried "recommendations" and give better comment on the type of use.