2010 24 Hours of Le Mans, LMS and ALMS news

[Chernaudi]

It seems that Pescarolo will commit to the ILMC if funding can be found in perference to the LMS.

[RacingManiac]

autosport.com - Le Mans News: First shot of sportscar racing's future

2011 Peugeot test mule.

[Kitdy]

Not that high res... Man are those fins gonna be ugly.

[Chernaudi]

It's rumored that the 90X may be running the same size tires front and rear (a possibility, but not certian), and that Audi may attempt to do the same with the Audi R18.

Strangely, Marshall Pruett at Speed.com is reporting that Audi is experementing with a wide tired version of the Audi R15, nicknamed the "plus-plus", that will use the rear tires on the front.

Don't know the validity or usefullness of that concept, unless Audi is using a R15 as a test mule for the R18, or if Audi expects to still possibly run in the ALMS next year. Even more out in the field is that Audi may run the car at Zhuhai, which I find as even more unlikey than the wide tired R15 being anything more than a test mule.

[RacingManiac]

Unlikely that the 90X is running rear in the front. The front end looks more or less identical to the 908 aside from the trailing edge of the fender, and unlike R15 Plus with its "bolt-on" inner front fender, the 908 cannot do that modification easily.

For the 2010 Diesels, I don't see them using a wide front tire period. Their engines are still big and heavy and unless they run a lot of ballast to offset the weight, the car will be rear heavy by default. Given the amount of work for both brand to bring the cars down to weight limit, they don't have much to play with ballast wise.

Might work for 2011 when all the engines are downsized, but I don't think there are much to gain from it now...

[Chernaudi]

I wrote to Marshall asking him about that, and he says that Audi may definently run the wide tired R15 at Sebring, especially if the R18 hits a snag, and that otherwise it's a R18 R&D car.

I don't think that a wide tired R15 is all that far-fetched. The Audi R15 at Sebring in 2009 need almost as much ballast as the Acura ARX-02 to meet the 900kg weight limit, most of that ballast was biased towards the front.

Maybe Audi knows that the R15 lacks front grip in slow corners, and the wider tires may help take advantage of that weight on the nose of their car, as well as test for the R18.

Also, the 90x is a 2011 rules car, an is rumored to have a diesel or turbo-gasoline V6 in it.

These are just rumors now, but Marshall confirmed to me that Audi is looking at wide wheels and tires for the R15 and R18 next year.

[RacingManiac]

I know Audi and Peugeot are looking to run wide fronts since earlier this year, as one of my friend who works at Wirth already confirmed that Michelin are making wind tunnel tires for both of them.

I am not too up to date on how the 2011 grandfathering of the 2010 car will work though? How is Audi going to use R15 at Sebring?

[Chernaudi]

The ACO will allow performance ballanced 2010 cars to run in the ILMC/LMS/LM24 next year. Those cars will have reduced fuel capacity, smaller air restrictors, but won't be required to run the dorsal fin.

Pruett refered to the Audi R15 plus plus in his article about the Peugeot 90x. Speaking of which, Mulsanne's corner has reported that the 90X has about a 6 inch/150mm shorter wheelbase than the 908. Mulsanne Mike has also reported that the 90X is using bodywork similar to that which was developed for the 908 for 2010, but was shelved for the 908 due to fininacial constrants, and that the new Pug may have a diesel V8, while the Audi R18 may have a diesel V6 or V8.

[playtimeover]

Hi Wouter Melissen. That's what I want to express.

[henk4]

Just for the record:

Intercontinental Le Mans Cup – 1 000 km de Zhuhai

Sur une piste grasse et toujours très piégeuse, Stéphane Sarrazin signe la pole position des 1 000 kilomètres de Zhuhai, finale de l’ILMC. Peugeot réalise un carton plein, puisque l’autre 908 HDi FAP pilotée par Simon Pagenaud se classe deuxième.

Pour leur dernière course avec la 908, les pilotes Peugeot ont placé la barre très haute dès le début de la séance. A trois minutes du drapeau à damier, Tom Kristensen est sorti de la piste alors qu’il tentait d’améliorer le temps des Français. S’il n’a rien heurté, l’octuple vainqueur des 24 Heures du Mans fut contraint de stopper sa tentative, et de rentrer à son stand pour enlever les graviers qu’il avait embarqué.

Stéphane Sarrazin : « C’est très bien pour nous de monopoliser la première ligne. La voiture était très bonne, mais assez difficile à conduire sur cette piste glissante. Nous craignions l'arrivée de la pluie, c’est pourquoi nous avons roulé vite dès le début de la session. »

1 - 2 - Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908 HDi FAP - Stéphane Sarrazin (FRA)/Franck Montagny (FRA), 1'21''868
2 - 1 - Team Peugeot Total - Peugeot 908 HDi FAP - Sébastien Bourdais (FRA)/Simon Pagenaud (FRA), 1'22''953
3 - 7 - Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15 TDI - Tom Kristensen (DAN)/Allan McNish (ECO), 1'23''152
4 - 8 - Audi Sport Team Joest - Audi R15 TDI - Rinaldo Capello (ITA)/Dumas (FRA), 1'24''589
5 - 11 - Drayson Racing - Lola Judd Coupé - Paul Drayson (GBR)/Jonny Cocker (GBR), 1'28''916
6 - 23 - Tokai University - Courage Oreca YGK - Shigekazu Wakisaka (JAP)/Shogo Mitsuyama (JAP), 1'30''869
7 - 35 - OAK Racing - Pescarolo Judd - Jacques Nicolet (FRA)/Frédéric Da Rocha (FRA)/Patrice Lafargue (FRA), 1'32''936
8 - 47 - Hope PoleVision - Shan Qi Zhang (CHI)/Jeffrey Lee (TAI)/Steve Zacchia (SUI), 1'33''227

Le départ des 1 000 km de Zhuhai sera donné dimanche à 5 h 00 (heure française).

[Chernaudi]

LMP qualifying was pretty much a crapshoot--Simon though that his time would hold, only to be blitzed by Stephane and TK almost overtook his time. Audi should't have messed with their tire strategy--they should've started on slicks or stayed on intermediates. After all, Sarazin was over a second quicker than the other Pug and the #7 Audi on inters. The time that Audi took to change tires easily took away valuable time that may've been better used.

In most sessions, the fastest Audi and the fastest 908 were only a split second apart in practice, which only had Thursday as a dry day, and the warm up and race should be in dry weather.

GT qualifying wasn't much of a surpise, as the Audi R8 LMS took the top 3--Zhuhai favors cars with straightline speed with the straights and slow corners. Little wonder why the ALMS balked at expanding the GTC class, as the Euro-spec GT3 cars need only wider tires to become GT2s.

And I found this interesting tidbit from Audi's post-Q press release, that, paraphrasing, said the R15 will be competing in it's current form for the last time in China. Audi letting slip that they're modifying the R15 to run the rears on the fronts as Pruett's 90X article insinuated.

[henk4]

Hitchcock could have written this, 5 seconds between the Pug and the Audi at the finish. Very exciting race, especially the last hour when everything depended on the speed of the pitstops. As the Pug was more frugal it could wait until the very last minute to do the final splash and dash and hence needed less fuel than the Audi that had come in about 20 laps earlier. Needing less liters resulted in a faster s&d and the Pug emerged from the pitlane just less than two seconds before the Audi.
The race looked to be an easy win for both Pugs in the first two hours, but then they sort of slowed down, letting the Audis come back in contention and giving the lead to McNish. After the third hour both Pugs regained speed, and in spite of a detour in the gravel by Montagny, the number 2 car stayed in contention, certainly also helped by a safety car about one and a half hour before the finish, which reduced the Audi's lead from 30 to just over 10 seconds. Then Sarrazin took over and fought for every tenths of a second, resulting in the successful final fuel stop.
In the mean time the second Audi had made it up to third, and stayed there as Bourdais hit a backmarker, had to replace bodywork and lost two laps in the process, a subsequent 1 second s&g penalty did also not contribute to a favourable result.

LMP2 was won by the Pescarolo of Oak racing, no surprise, only LMP in the field, they came 5th overall, but just nicked that place from the Hybrid Porsche GT3 which an very good of frugality, in combination with speed.

GT2 was for the BMW team.

[Chernaudi]

I myself wonder why the Pugs slowed down so much and let the Audis catch up and go around them. I've read at Ten-tenths, Speed TV and Planet Le Mans that the Pugs had brake problems, and Sarazin refered to brake issues in his interview.

Audi also reverted back to the '09 Sebring strategy of going for maximum grip by only single stinting tires the second half, and that the Audis ran down the 908s as they struggled for grip. That gamble nearly paid off for Audi, only if the lead Audi took a couple seconds less fuel, TK could've avoided Bordais all together. That deal with Seb reeks of team orders, like how the PLM team orders deal shafted the #07 Pug there.

[henk4]

I am sure Peugeot had kept a very good eye as to were Bourdais was relative to TK when they planned the final stop for Sarrazin. Yet the laptimes of Bourdais before the stop did not indicate he was blocking TK as many want us to believe. After the stop Bourdais did one conspicously slower lap, but that would not even have been necessary as TK admitted that he would probably never have caught SS, in case of a free track, due to his deteriorating rubber.

And yes this reeks of team orders, something I think Dr. Ulrich would also have had no scruples to apply in case the situation would have been the other way round.

I think we have seen the end of an era with the big banger diesels now outruled. Let's see what next year will bring and if Peugeot, as is rumoured wants to race a petrol car, then we could have the first real FACTORY head-to-head between diesels and petrol cars. (Although I think there will be those who will say that if Peugeot would win this battle, that ACO always favours the French and that the rules are biased towards petrol cars)

[Chernaudi]

I read Audi's PR, and TK said that he had a slow puncture, meaning that Sarazin probably still would've won unless his brakes gave out.

Curiously, I do have proof that Audi have used team orders before, but not when it cost their teammates anything. In '08 at the Nurbergring, Audi pitted McNish to let Rocky by. No big loss--Audi scored the same number of manufacturer points, and Allan was out of the running for the LMS title. And at PLM in '08, Werner was asked to let McNish by as he was the fastest among the two Audis and the Pug, and Werner and Luhr had the ALMS title locked up.

And at PLM in '00, McNish was asked to hold up a Panoz to keep an Audi 1-2 finish. Needless to say, Allan wasn't having any of that, and did what was asked of him for the minimal amount of time possible--he was leading the race, and had a big lead, and didn't feel like playing defense against a car that wasn't really fighting him. Allan was allowed to let the Audi-Panoz fight by him with a few laps to go, and Audi still got their 1-2.

That's what I don't like about the Peugeot deal. Sarazin had a wounded car with bad brakes. Both Tom and Stephane had worn tires, and Tom had a puncture. So Stephane probably would've won as long as his brakes didn't fail. Still, it's a disapointment and to me a sign that Peugeot see Audi as a serious foe when they're on their stride. Also, the 908 isn't unstopable--Audi beat the 908 in fair fights with the R10, and the 908 isn't the most reliable car out there, more on that in a moment.

However, if the #7 Audi took a second or two less time for fuel on pit road, that deal with Seb could've been avoided all together. Still it's puzzling why the R15 got better fuel mileage at Le Mans and Road Atlanta, but got equal or less mileage than the 908s at Silverstone and China?

As for why the Audis ran down the Pugs in the middle of the race, that's where Audi stopped double stinting tires, and it seems that the Pugs had similar issues with tire wear, judging by how much the Audis were able to eat into the gap, and that Audi still had better stops. Either that, or the Peugeot guys knew that with the brakes, they were in trouble.

Which leads to my point on reliability. After four years, you'd think that Peugeot would have the 908 figured out. So then, why were the brakes on both cars cooked after 1000km? Audi didn't have brake issues, so why did Peugeot? And it's not the first time that Peugeot had brake problems PLM '08, Sebring '09 and Le Mans '09, the Pugs had brake problems that either cost them the race, or nearly did.

I think that brakes are an area that Peugeot need to look at for the 90X--the less poweriful cars will be slower on the straights, but you'll still hammer the brakes to maximize the braking areas and the cars will still be at a 900kg min. The 908 isn't bullet proof, and brakes have been a weak area. For that, I'll bet that Peugeot is glad that the 90x is a slightly ligher car, but if those intakes on the rear fenders are the only brake ducting that they'll get, they may be in trouble--the Audi R8 had more ducting for its rear brakes.

And I don't think that the 90X will be a gasoline car--contempory rumors at Ten-Tenths suggest a V8 diesel for the Pug and a V6 or V8 diesel for the Audi.

I guess that we'll find out about the Audi--and what Audi plans on doing by fitting the R15 with wider front tires--next month when the R18 has it's press launch, and what the 90X will really be in January.