View Poll Results: UCP Car of the Decade

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  • Alfa Romeo 159

    2 4.88%
  • Alfa Romeo 8C

    3 7.32%
  • Aston Martin DB9

    7 17.07%
  • BMW 3 Series E90-E93

    4 9.76%
  • Bugatti Veyron

    14 34.15%
  • Cadillac CTS (1st Generation)

    1 2.44%
  • Chevrolet Corvette (C6)

    3 7.32%
  • Chrysler 300

    1 2.44%
  • Citroen C6

    2 4.88%
  • Ferrari F430 Scuderia

    1 2.44%
  • Fiat Panda 100 HP

    3 7.32%
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Results 46 to 55 of 55

Thread: UCP Awards 2009: Car of the Decade [Preliminary Voting 1]

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    The Bits you touch in a Koenigsegg - and the bits you view - are at least bespoke.

    And it doesn't look like a kit car.
    I can understand that. So does it bother you when somewhat lesser cars (lambo, audi, etc.) share bits, like the nav system? I personally care more about how a part works than where it comes from, so the fact the Zonda, Koenigsegg, and even the F1 used borrowed parts doesn't bother me.

    I won't argue the looks of the SSC, though. It's really not that impressive styling wise. However the Veyron may look impressive, I think it's butt fugly. It's impressive in the same way that a working bulldog is.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    It's not a stretch to imagine a vehicle that has not had the millions of dollars spent on it's R&D as a Veyron to have a few issues with durability, is it?

    And I've seen a few tests which says the Veyron is in fact ridiculously calm at maximum attack - or at least relatively to the manic nature of a McLaren F1 (or SSC).

    It's a fairly subjective thing to argue either way.
    You could imagine that. But the same thing could be said of a car making 1,000hp with a complex 16 cylinder engine, 4 turbos and 11 radiators. Quite a few people have made ridiculous power out of the Corvette engines, so I'm not so inclined to question it's reliability unless I hear something to the contrary, same as with the veyron.

    I've only seen top speed runs at Ehra-Lessein where everyone comented on how stable it was. When people made high speed runs in "top speed mode" other places was where I saw the comments about tracking. Thus I mentioned wind and a less than perfect track (for instance NASCAR ovals are often almost as rough as streets.)

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I've seen dimensions of a Veyron, are there some Dimension comparisons available for the SSC to compare?

    Is the suspension on the SSC adjustable?
    Dimensions for the SSC (which also manages to weigh 1,400lbs less.)
    Length 4,475.5 millimetres (176.20 in)
    Width 2,095.5 millimetres (82.50 in)
    Height 1,092.2 millimetres (43.00 in)

    So .5 inches longer, 3.8 inches wider, and 2.6 inches shorter in height than the veyron. Not a huge difference aside from weight.

    Are you reffering to adjustable shocks? I haven't heard but I imagine you could order it with anything you wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    But does it? aren't there limitations to that in terms of what is classed as a safe vehicle? Are computer simulations acceptable for a small scale operation such as this?
    No, it's the same testing as anything else sold as a new (non-kit) vehicle. And we do have annoyingly strict crash and emissions standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I don't think it matches the prestige, at all.

    Regardless of the price, the impression left is that your buying the Skoda instead of purchasing the Audi, no pun intended.
    It doesn't. The (bought) name of Bugatti backed by VW money is always going to have more prestige than a little american company. Same goes for Koenigsegg and Pagani. They just sound more exotic and faster. But I think the ZR1 has shown that a car without a lot of prestige can still be a good car. Often on these forums I hear complaints about paying for the name, not the performance, why doesn't that apply (in part at least) here?

    If I'd bought an Audi and got beat at the one thing I was trying to do well by a Skoda, I'd feel pretty damn embarassed. If I was driving the Skoda that beat the Audi, I'd feel pretty smug.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    With some remarkable issues - as all supercars of it's type have. That extra 10% that you pay the extra $400,000 for might just be worthwhile.
    It's not just $400,000 for 10% though. It's 4 times as much, another $1,500,000 for the image.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    The SSC is a capable car, no doubt.

    But I rate the Veyron over it simply because it's a more capable car over most fields of comparison. While the SSC is quicker, the Veyron does it with greater distinction.

    Snobbery? maybe, but if you can't be a snob when you pay $1 million for a car, when can you?
    The veyron is sold as "the fastest car in the world" on their website, by thier salesmen, and by their owners. They don't say "most prestigous car in the world," they don't say that it makes a great city car, they say fastest. They say most powerful. It's not. It's remarkable that the thing runs despite all the complexity, but it's not the one thing they claim it to be.

    When can you be a snob? When you buy the actual fastest car in the world for 1/4 the price.
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

  2. #47
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    Veyron wins this poll, I will be setting up the finals shortly.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
    ...
    Also, can I point out, the Veyron was the first to do it. And that's got to count for something.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Also, can I point out, the Veyron was the first to do it. And that's got to count for something.
    The Veyron came out a little earlier. The McLaren F1 was a lot earlier, and a much better super car, IMO.
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
    I can understand that. So does it bother you when somewhat lesser cars (lambo, audi, etc.) share bits, like the nav system? I personally care more about how a part works than where it comes from, so the fact the Zonda, Koenigsegg, and even the F1 used borrowed parts doesn't bother me.
    I'm a bit of a believer that if you are paying that much for a car, then you should expect at least some form of bespoke accoutremont.

    I guess thats how they justify the price of the SSC though.
    I won't argue the looks of the SSC, though. It's really not that impressive styling wise. However the Veyron may look impressive, I think it's butt fugly. It's impressive in the same way that a working bulldog is.
    I think the Veyron has actually aged quite well, and is certainly well contained for size, if not weight.

    You could imagine that. But the same thing could be said of a car making 1,000hp with a complex 16 cylinder engine, 4 turbos and 11 radiators. Quite a few people have made ridiculous power out of the Corvette engines, so I'm not so inclined to question it's reliability unless I hear something to the contrary, same as with the veyron.
    4 Turbos and 11 radiators are complex in plumbing, but the W16 is fairly stable and well engineered. Thats why you pay for the development costs - so that the complexity is countered by reliability.

    The SSC is a simpler package, certainly. But it's still a car that is tuned to an extreme level of usability and reliability.

    I've only seen top speed runs at Ehra-Lessein where everyone comented on how stable it was. When people made high speed runs in "top speed mode" other places was where I saw the comments about tracking. Thus I mentioned wind and a less than perfect track (for instance NASCAR ovals are often almost as rough as streets.)
    A NASCAR oval might not be the best place to make a high speed run.

    On the other hand, a place like Nardo might be a better test for both cars. Certainly both had home field advantage.

    Dimensions for the SSC (which also manages to weigh 1,400lbs less.)
    Length 4,475.5 millimetres (176.20 in)
    Width 2,095.5 millimetres (82.50 in)
    Height 1,092.2 millimetres (43.00 in)
    I guess thats what 4 turbos and 11 radiators weigh

    So .5 inches longer, 3.8 inches wider, and 2.6 inches shorter in height than the veyron. Not a huge difference aside from weight.
    Certainly smaller than I thought. Except for the width. Which raises questions about the frontal area of the car - which may restrict it's top speed. which could be countered by it's shorter height.

    Are you reffering to adjustable shocks? I haven't heard but I imagine you could order it with anything you wanted.
    Air Adjustible suspension in particular, but if it's orderable, or changeable on the fly, that could be good.

    No, it's the same testing as anything else sold as a new (non-kit) vehicle. And we do have annoyingly strict crash and emissions standards.
    So they sacrificed one for a crash test then? interesting. Do we have sales figures available that would make this worthwhile?

    It doesn't. The (bought) name of Bugatti backed by VW money is always going to have more prestige than a little american company. Same goes for Koenigsegg and Pagani. They just sound more exotic and faster. But I think the ZR1 has shown that a car without a lot of prestige can still be a good car. Often on these forums I hear complaints about paying for the name, not the performance, why doesn't that apply (in part at least) here?
    Because we're not talking about the lower echelons where good value is a considered aspect of the equation. We're talking about the highest ranges of automotive excess and prestige. There is nothing worse for the owner of these cars to have a car sneered upon as a lower rent version, when you can buy the real thing.

    thats not to say the SSC is not the real thing - it plainly has the numbers. But the impression is there.

    If I'd bought an Audi and got beat at the one thing I was trying to do well by a Skoda, I'd feel pretty damn embarassed. If I was driving the Skoda that beat the Audi, I'd feel pretty smug.
    But what gets the girl?

    Hey baby, I drive the lesser brand but i'm more capable?

    And the Veyron might have been built to be the fastest, but it was also to be the most technological, the most expensive, the best hypercar ever.

    And it's only not the fastest.

    It's not just $400,000 for 10% though. It's 4 times as much, another $1,500,000 for the image.
    What money when you've got $1,500,000 to spend on a car?

    The veyron is sold as "the fastest car in the world" on their website, by thier salesmen, and by their owners. They don't say "most prestigous car in the world," they don't say that it makes a great city car, they say fastest. They say most powerful. It's not. It's remarkable that the thing runs despite all the complexity, but it's not the one thing they claim it to be.
    So you've spoken to a dealer and understand their sales strategy?

    It's claimed to be many things - the argument it's been built to be just one is fairly ridiculous.

    When can you be a snob? When you buy the actual fastest car in the world for 1/4 the price.
    Because it's not about buying the fastest car. It's about buying the best hypercar ever, with the broadest range of capability.

    And the Veyron is that.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    A NASCAR oval might not be the best place to make a high speed run.

    On the other hand, a place like Nardo might be a better test for both cars. Certainly both had home field advantage.
    That's what I would like to see. Both cars tested at the same track. Would solve many of the arguments. I think you'd have to get a privately owned car, though, as I doubt Bugatti would allow one of the press fleet cars to be tested like that. They've been pretty picky in the past about such comparisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I guess thats what 4 turbos and 11 radiators weigh
    haha

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Certainly smaller than I thought. Except for the width. Which raises questions about the frontal area of the car - which may restrict it's top speed. which could be countered by it's shorter height.
    For some reason people assume that because it's american it's overweight, enormous and can't turn...

    To be honest the first time I saw a Veyron I was surprised at the size. I had assumed from the weight that it would be roughly the size of a pickup.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    So they sacrificed one for a crash test then? interesting. Do we have sales figures available that would make this worthwhile?
    Not a clue on sales figures. I do know that there's one being driven around the Tri Cities area by a guy who owns a vineyard in the Yakima wine country, but that's the only one I know of personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    But what gets the girl?

    Hey baby, I drive the lesser brand but i'm more capable?
    It's been my experience that women who get into a car because it's the fastest quickly get out when it gets passed. That's why picking up women in a Rolls has it's advantages. Clearly shows money, but no one expects you to be fast, or to have to race to show it.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    And the Veyron might have been built to be the fastest, but it was also to be the most technological, the most expensive, the best hypercar ever.

    And it's only not the fastest.
    It is clearly the most expensive and most technological, but expense for the sake of expense and technology for the sake of technology are both fails in my book. And best is always subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    So you've spoken to a dealer and understand their sales strategy?

    It's claimed to be many things - the argument it's been built to be just one is fairly ridiculous.

    Because it's not about buying the fastest car. It's about buying the best hypercar ever, with the broadest range of capability.

    And the Veyron is that.
    If I wanted the broadest range of capability I wouldn't go for one of these cars in the running for the top speed race. I would go for more downforce, with a top speed nearer 200mph (which is quite hard to reach on most tracks anyways) and fewer compromises to comfort and handling in the pursuit of top speed.

    It all depends on priorities and personal preferences. The veyron completely wiffs on mine, but it clearly catches yours. Since the veyron has won this poll and will undoubtedly win the final, I will concede.
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
    That's what I would like to see. Both cars tested at the same track. Would solve many of the arguments. I think you'd have to get a privately owned car, though, as I doubt Bugatti would allow one of the press fleet cars to be tested like that. They've been pretty picky in the past about such comparisons.
    As would any manufacturer be picky about dishing out a million dollar car to be shown up by an upstart.

    They probably view it as a tuner car and as an unfit comparo.

    For some reason people assume that because it's american it's overweight, enormous and can't turn...
    There are cars that ride and handle from the US. I've even seen one with my own eyes.


    To be honest the first time I saw a Veyron I was surprised at the size. I had assumed from the weight that it would be roughly the size of a pickup.
    Are we talking Hilux or F-350?

    Not a clue on sales figures. I do know that there's one being driven around the Tri Cities area by a guy who owns a vineyard in the Yakima wine country, but that's the only one I know of personally.
    I'd be interested to see them, actually.
    It's been my experience that women who get into a car because it's the fastest quickly get out when it gets passed. That's why picking up women in a Rolls has it's advantages. Clearly shows money, but no one expects you to be fast, or to have to race to show it.
    But by that logic when the Rolls is passed by the suitably equipped Maybach the Girl gets out.

    Those sorts of girls you don't want to impress anyway - they only want your money

    It is clearly the most expensive and most technological, but expense for the sake of expense and technology for the sake of technology are both fails in my book. And best is always subjective.
    Quite. But thats the Piech way, It must be the "best" at all costs.

    And must be the most complicated way of doing it.

    If I wanted the broadest range of capability I wouldn't go for one of these cars in the running for the top speed race. I would go for more downforce, with a top speed nearer 200mph (which is quite hard to reach on most tracks anyways) and fewer compromises to comfort and handling in the pursuit of top speed.
    I concur - there are others that do some of the compromises better.

    But none crack 252mp/h.

    It all depends on priorities and personal preferences. The veyron completely wiffs on mine, but it clearly catches yours. Since the veyron has won this poll and will undoubtedly win the final, I will concede.
    I don't think it's undoubted. The GT-R makes a strong case as a better all rounder.

    I just think the Veyron is by far the car of the decade. Never let the facts get in the way of a quick supercar
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    They probably view it as a tuner car and as an unfit comparo.
    Yes, but they view everything as an unfit comparo. Read an article recently that compared it to an F1 and they were still reluctant to let it be tested. If an F1 isn't suitable company then nothing is. Probably something to do with Top Gear shennanigans.

    What I don't get is why RUF gets more respect as a manufacturer than SSC, despite the fact that they're quite obviously tuners.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Are we talking Hilux or F-350?
    Well it weighs more than a, all steel base F-150 so that's roughly what I was picturing. Just lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I'd be interested to see them, actually.
    Me too. If you can find them, go ahead and post them.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    But by that logic when the Rolls is passed by the suitably equipped Maybach the Girl gets out.

    Those sorts of girls you don't want to impress anyway - they only want your money
    Well, the Rolls isn't sold as being fast, just expensive and luxurious.

    When you look like me, you can't be too picky. Ever seen Office Space?
    "What would you do with a million dollars?"
    "Two chicks at once."
    "Not all women are attracted to money, you know."
    "The kind of women that would double up on me are."

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Quite. But thats the Piech way, It must be the "best" at all costs.

    And must be the most complicated way of doing it.
    A fine french way of doing it. If a cheap little camera will do, design an incredibly expensive moving nose for your plane instead. If a wooden stick is the best you can get, design a carbo-titanium stick that costs $30,000 and does the same job. Some call it good engineering, my engineering teachers always called it stoopid.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I concur - there are others that do some of the compromises better.

    But none crack 252mp/h.
    Which is in itself a compromise. I'm still kind of meh on the whole concept of a top speed that can only be reached on one specially made track in the entire world. If you could reach 252 at say, Sebring, then I'd be much more into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I don't think it's undoubted. The GT-R makes a strong case as a better all rounder.

    I just think the Veyron is by far the car of the decade. Never let the facts get in the way of a quick supercar
    Hehe. And that's what it comes down to.
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
    Yes, but they view everything as an unfit comparo. Read an article recently that compared it to an F1 and they were still reluctant to let it be tested. If an F1 isn't suitable company then nothing is. Probably something to do with Top Gear shennanigans.
    That might be a good point - They're just sick of lending them out and getting them back with wrecked tyres and a bruised ego

    What I don't get is why RUF gets more respect as a manufacturer than SSC, despite the fact that they're quite obviously tuners.
    Who have been making cars for nearly 30 years.

    I agree, but I've never actually seen an RUF test. Bear in mind it may also be that a lot of the magazines who perpetuate the myth of the SSC being lesser are based in europe and do not have ready access to the car.
    Well it weighs more than a, all steel base F-150 so that's roughly what I was picturing. Just lower.
    Oh well, fair enough.

    I saw a squashed Audi TT in profile.
    Me too. If you can find them, go ahead and post them.
    Will Do.

    Well, the Rolls isn't sold as being fast, just expensive and luxurious.
    Luxury is an excess of all things. Speed inclusive.
    When you look like me, you can't be too picky. Ever seen Office Space?
    "What would you do with a million dollars?"
    "Two chicks at once."
    "Not all women are attracted to money, you know."
    "The kind of women that would double up on me are."
    Gold Diggers. Like hookers, but Smarter.
    A fine french way of doing it. If a cheap little camera will do, design an incredibly expensive moving nose for your plane instead. If a wooden stick is the best you can get, design a carbo-titanium stick that costs $30,000 and does the same job. Some call it good engineering, my engineering teachers always called it stoopid.
    Isn't there some lovely story about how NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that doesn't leak in space, and the Russians used a Pencil instead?

    Which is in itself a compromise. I'm still kind of meh on the whole concept of a top speed that can only be reached on one specially made track in the entire world. If you could reach 252 at say, Sebring, then I'd be much more into it.
    If that sort of speed was accessible to the general public, god help us all.

    Hehe. And that's what it comes down to.
    Facts are boring. Feelings are interesting.

    At least that what girls keep telling me.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Gold Diggers. Like hookers, but Smarter.
    My grandpa always said "There's two kinds of women. The kind you pay for and the kind you don't. The kind you pay for is cheaper."

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Isn't there some lovely story about how NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that doesn't leak in space, and the Russians used a Pencil instead?
    Well, yes. That would be another of the examples that our professors use. However, as one kid pointed out the russians aren't selling ridiculously expensive "Space pencils" and a lot of companies here are making money off of "Space pens." So I suppose that one did even out somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    Facts are boring. Feelings are interesting.

    At least that what girls keep telling me.
    This is why engineers need charts to understand women.
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

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