View Poll Results: UCP Car of the Decade

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  • Alfa Romeo 159

    2 4.88%
  • Alfa Romeo 8C

    3 7.32%
  • Aston Martin DB9

    7 17.07%
  • BMW 3 Series E90-E93

    4 9.76%
  • Bugatti Veyron

    14 34.15%
  • Cadillac CTS (1st Generation)

    1 2.44%
  • Chevrolet Corvette (C6)

    3 7.32%
  • Chrysler 300

    1 2.44%
  • Citroen C6

    2 4.88%
  • Ferrari F430 Scuderia

    1 2.44%
  • Fiat Panda 100 HP

    3 7.32%
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Thread: UCP Awards 2009: Car of the Decade [Preliminary Voting 1]

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Nowhere. But it is not the point.

    As kitdy said, I don't like the car. I'd never have one. And I think that in the real world it's pointless and that you're going to have a lot more fun in a Mazda MX-5.

    But, what the Veyron did was redefine what was thought of being possible. It pushed the outside of the envelope. It made everything else before it look like it was from the 1950s. The amount of engineering put into it makes it a masterpiece.

    The Veyron made the automobile move forwards.

    For that alone it deserves a place in the final.
    I think a lot of what you say is applicable to for instance the Citroen DS. On top of that, that car had one overwhelming advantage. It was practical. It is not so difficult to go outside the envelope, but to turn that into something useful is what makes such a car masterpiece.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  2. #17
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    I agree partly with you. The DS is another of those cars which pushed the outside of the envelope. It was possibly an even more groundbreaking car the Veyron. I personally think it is one of the greatest cars ever made, perhaps the greatest.

    However, the DS wasn't perfect. The engine was an acknowledged achilles point of the DS throughout its entire life, and it was never solved. The Veyron is the exact opposite, all is geared towards performance but it's an useable, reliable and accessible performance. And that's the crucial difference.

    Everyone can build a fast car, just give it a big engine. But the Veyron isn't just a fast car. This is why is oculd possibly be the car of the decade.
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  3. #18
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    The Veyron has a rough ride and is godawful loud, even by sports and super car standards. They added a nav system, but so what? Not really digging it. Plus, they made a huge deal out of the top speed and a bunch of reporters started spouting of the fact that it was a record holder for fastest car in the world. But before they ever went out and actually got it certified with a record run, a little company in Washington state had already beaten them. Did not get anywhere near the press but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    Sure the SSC has lower production numbers, but so does the F1. If you're voting for it because you feel it personifies a decade of excess, flamboyance and media hype I could see where you're coming from. But by that token the Hummer H2 should also be up for voting. To me the Veyron personifies everything that is wrong with cars today and I can't see voting for it as the COTD.
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  4. #19
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    The SSC was, and still is, vaporware, essentially.'

    The Veyron is a fantastic engineering achievement to achieve and aim that some people are fairly "meh" about achieving.

    And thats achieving ridiculous high speeds with safety, ease and repeatability.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    The SSC was, and still is, vaporware, essentially.'

    The Veyron is a fantastic engineering achievement to achieve and aim that some people are fairly "meh" about achieving.

    And thats achieving ridiculous high speeds with safety, ease and repeatability.
    How do you figure that? There's not a lot of them on the road, certainly and there never will be. But again the same thing goes for the F1. I agree that the veryon repeatable reaches ridiculously high speeds, but so does the SSC. Furthermore the only place the veyron has reached those speeds in on that one specially made track. The SSC did it on a road that I have driven on, and was certified. That actually means more to me, especially the fact that the record run was undertaken in windy conditions (which are really the norm for that area.)
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

  6. #21
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    The SSC is a tempremental thing that requires tuning reguarly.

    I reckon the Veyron needs service as well, but you're buying into a whole deal - the after sales support, etc.

    I get the SSC might technically be quicker, but it's a brute force thing, the Veyron is comparitively more exciting technically.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I agree partly with you. The DS is another of those cars which pushed the outside of the envelope. It was possibly an even more groundbreaking car the Veyron. I personally think it is one of the greatest cars ever made, perhaps the greatest.

    However, the DS wasn't perfect. The engine was an acknowledged achilles point of the DS throughout its entire life, and it was never solved. The Veyron is the exact opposite, all is geared towards performance but it's an useable, reliable and accessible performance. And that's the crucial difference.

    Everyone can build a fast car, just give it a big engine. But the Veyron isn't just a fast car. This is why is oculd possibly be the car of the decade.
    I think the performance of the Veyron came at the expense of the weight of the car. If it had been a proper case of engineering (as you call it), they could have taken out at least 300 kg. (compare that to a McLaren F1). A two-tonne two seater sportscar does shift the goalposts for me. (and as far as the DS is concerned, it was not only groundbreaking, it was also affordable)

    Weight was obviously a Piech obsession, creating the 908 bergspider with a 6 liter fuel tank with gravity driven fuel supply on one end, and the overweight Veyron and Phaeton (why more than 300 kg over the A8 Quattro) on the other.
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  8. #23
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    Phaeton weights more than the Audi because it isn't made of aluminium.

    I'm not trying to defend the Veyron as a car, and nor do I think it is perfect. But in my opinion denying that it was an imense engineering achievement is denying the truth. As IB4R says it's not the performance in itself, the SSC does it, but the way it achieves it. Comfortably, reliably, accesible and repeatable.

    That's the Veyron's achievement in my opinion.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Phaeton weights more than the Audi because it isn't made of aluminium.

    I'm not trying to defend the Veyron as a car, and nor do I think it is perfect. But in my opinion denying that it was an imense engineering achievement is denying the truth. As IB4R says it's not the performance in itself, the SSC does it, but the way it achieves it. Comfortably, reliably, accesible and repeatable.

    That's the Veyron's achievement in my opinion.
    the alu body alone does not bring 300 kg....
    About repeatability: Have you come across figures for tyre and brake (pad) use of the Veyron, when constantly using its performance? (I don't want to make jokes about its fuel consumption, where a full tank offered 12 minutes of top speed ride)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  10. #25
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    The tyres, if you repeat the 400kp/h performance, are replaced every what, 2,000km?

    Pretty reasonable if you consider the speed they work to.

    Brake Pads - I thought it was ceramic? so fade is fairly minimal.

    I get the Veyron hate - it's too heavy, it's too impractical, what it achieves it does so without gravitas or excitement.

    But for Car of the Decade, you're seriously going to overlook it, because it's fat?

    If anything thats a perfect representation of the 2000's.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    the alu body alone does not bring 300 kg....
    The A8 has a aluminum body and chasis. Altough some of the weight difference could also be due to the overengineering in some Phaeton parts.

    By the way, I don't think the Veyron a representation of the noughties. That's the Hummer as was nominated. The Veyron would be a worthy car in any decade. And yes it does have high running costs, but I doubt any of its theorical rivals is exactly cheap to run.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    The A8 has a aluminum body and chasis.
    that's called a unitary body....(since the Lancia Lambda)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    that's called a unitary body....(since the Lancia Lambda)
    Actually, doesn't the A8 have a spaceframe?
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Actually, doesn't the A8 have a spaceframe?
    Yes it is.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #30
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    this link shows a better view of the "spaceframe"'

    Alcoa: AATS: Designers and Manufacturers of the Audi A8 Aluminum Spaceframe

    whereby apparently the platform does not look like one piece, as in the other sketch.

    a real spaceframe looks like this
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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