Last minute Koenigsegg, Lamborghini and Porsche news from Geneva ...

[Revo]

They haven't been able to buy it yet. They must have 430s now.

James May has recently acquired a F430....

[wwgkd]

If it makes you feel any better about it ferrer, most of our athletes aren't going to be buying the 458 because they're all too big. American football and basketball players can't fit into a 430 or 458, so they buy 612s instead. Thus, over here the 612 is the "footballers car."

[Ferrer]

James May has recently acquired a F430....

I reckon you've got better at nickpicking than me.

[demonrunning07]

I appologize for my short hiatus.

Perhaps you should specify fashion for fashion's sake.

In which case, it's art

I think this is the best point we've made yet. The Cygnet is definitely fashion for fashion's sake, I just wouldn't call that concept (or the Cygnet) art. I would say that art is more aesthetic for aesthetic's sake and that it shouldn't make an attempt at fashion. I would be much more inclined to call an Alfa Romeo or a Spyker art than I would the Cygnet. From a driver's perspective, both these cars at best are on-par for their price bracket and market sector. And yet, they are unique souly because of their aesthetic qualities.

I also understand the points that have been made about BMW, that in many markets they are the most economical and most practical RWD cars.

But in defense of the 612, I for one love every aspect of the styling. It's classic GT in its proportions: its overstated bonnet and swept cockpit hark back to the very first road-going Ferraris. It is fundamentally Italian and almost "retro" in the effectiveness of this overall design theme. The controversial "teardrops" on the doors seal the deal. This is a feature that could have come straight from one of the great Italian GTs of the 1950s or 60s and I think it works brilliantly on the modern car.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I concur to a point - the proportions are great, but the wheels are far, far too small.

[Ferrer]

Many modern cars have great proportions badly let down by poor detailing. Many BMWs are an example of this.

[henk4]

Many modern cars have great proportions badly let down by poor detailing. Many BMWs are an example of this.

Some (many) BMWs have some great details but are a severe let-down regarding overall proportions....

[Ferrer]

Some (many) BMWs have some great details but are a severe let-down regarding overall proportions....

Only their SUVs (which I'm not interested in them at all) and the 5er GT (a great opportunity missed). Their cars are fine, thanks to their layout.

[Dino Scuderia]

There was a new 5 at Amelia Island over the weekend...in some ways improving from the Bangle era and some ways not. The sheet metal surfacing could have easily come out of Hyundai.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

They have the short bonnet overhang - large rear overhang that lends itself to a sporty disposition, but there is hope in BMW design - I've not seen a pair of alloy wheels that I didn't think was artfully created Come out of the BMW factories.

I actually think it's the other way around with Modern cars, Ferrer. Great detailing (particularly of surfacing in some vehicles) let down by truly ghastly proportions. Most modern cars are too heavily weighted forward and rear of the wheels - case in point is most PSA models, some of which have nearly 1 metre worth of sheetmetal in front of the wheels...

This is a consequence of the chassis engineering that goes on, But perhaps the best example I can give you of a car with reasonable detailing but poor proportions is the Skoda Superb.

[Ferrer]

True there are many cars with good detailing but bad proportions. I think most of them are front engined, front wheel drive cars. Our Delta is a good example. I love the detailing, but the proportions are all wrong, and don't seem to benefit interior space much, but that's another story.

But when you get the layout right, that's you are seding the power to the rear wheels, the proportions easily become much better. Then you can have short overhangs, and long bonnets, which undoubtedly help. And then is when the detailing lets them down. Like the BMW 1 Series for instance.

[henk4]

I was about to quote the BMW 1-series as a car that got all the proportions wrong....

[Ferrer]

Why? It's got a long bonnet, short overhangs and a tiny cabin. It should look good, sportcars like.

[Dino Scuderia]

I was about to quote the BMW 1-series as a car that got all the proportions wrong....

I agree, it's right frumpy looking if not cartoonish.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

True there are many cars with good detailing but bad proportions. I think most of them are front engined, front wheel drive cars. Our Delta is a good example. I love the detailing, but the proportions are all wrong, and don't seem to benefit interior space much, but that's another story.

But when you get the layout right, that's you are seding the power to the rear wheels, the proportions easily become much better. Then you can have short overhangs, and long bonnets, which undoubtedly help. And then is when the detailing lets them down. Like the BMW 1 Series for instance.

The 1 series is a study in poor interior packaging necessitated by an overly complex and wasted exterior presentation.

RWD does enable great proportions but FWD cars actually have something going for them as well. It's an example of proportions over detailing but the Holden/Chevrolet Cruze is a good example of of a FWD car Getting the wheel/body balance right.