Chevy Volt priced at $41,000 before credit.

[Ferrer]

I am not so sure. If work and back is less than 35 miles, then you are paying 0 dollars for gas. If you have a 100 mile trip, then you can do 35 odd electric miles, and with relatively untame driving otherwise, 65 with the engine charging the battery.

So that'd be about 2 gallons per 100 miles (Jalopnik got 33 mpg non-electric only), or 50 mpg or 21 km/L or 4.7L/100 km.

I mean, the Volt cost 41k, and I think the US government is throwing in 7.5k -, you are paying 33.5k for this car. That isn't absolutely terrible... Is it?

I mean, someone could dominate a Volt with a light, small, cheap, aerodynamically efficient diesel, but even if this is the case, the Volt is kinda a car for the future.

I don't even know if it's meant to be the best - the Insight and the Prius were the first strike - this and the Leaf are the second.

Maybe you are right - maybe diesels still have it. But this is impressive according to the people I've read that have driven it.

In any case, if you want to be fuel efficient if you have an ICE inside it has to be a diesel. Even if you have a hybrid car or an extended-range EV diesel will always trump petrol when it comes to fuel consumption. And of course what Matra mentioned (electricity isn't "free") shoudl also be considered.

And then you have consider a conventional diesel still makes much more sense than those electricity-bound cars. We probably drive less in the city because we have quite good integrated public transport systems, and anyway there are no parking spaces in cities and you have to pay for them.

And out of the city our average speeds are on the hig-ish side, which higlights diesel advantages, and the other raods are usually twisty roads were you are quite demanding with the drivetrain of your car. The 101mph limited speed is laughable too. Finally, you can buy lots of excellent diesel cars for 33 grand.

So no, for us it's still diesel.

[culver]

Diesels are a different beast. I don't know if diesels work as well with start stop type technologies as Otto cycle motors. Another thing to consider is that the typically large advantage diesel has in mileage starts to fall when you compare them to the hybrid cars. There are a number of factors that result in greater mileage out of a diesel motor. Those include significantly lower pumping losses due to not having a throttle, a higher compression ratio resulting in a more efficient cycle and higher specific heat of the fuel. #3 can never be overcome so long as we are talking gas vs diesel. #2 is somewhat offset by the ability to use a modified Atkinson cycle in the hybrid cars. #1 is also largely offset because the gas motor is never at idle (diesels use a LOT less fuel at idle) and almost always run at a near WOT condition. WOT doesn't mean high RPM, just that even at low RPM the computer can adjust the loads on the electric motors such that the gas motor tries to run near WOT which results in pumping losses much closer to a gas motor. Diesels are still more efficient but the delta is smaller.

We should also keep in mind that diesel motors typically weigh more and i suspect adding that extra weight when you already have a number of other parts under the hood doesn't help anything. And of course in many parts of the world diesel just isn't as common as in Europe. Japan never embraced it as Europe did and the US, with our cheaper fuel prices, certainly hasn't even though VW would love it if we did.

Ferrer,
The 101mph speed limit is very reasonable for the US. Our highest legal speed limit is 80mph. I've said it in the past and I will say it again, I'm not in love with modern diesels. They don't suck like earlier diesels but I far prefer the 1.8T in my father's 1998 Passat or the 2.0T in his 2008 Passat to my brother's 2009 Jetta diesel. The Jetta isn't bad but it still lacks refinement even compared to the 12 year old 1.8T (and I mean as the 1.8T is now, not as it was new). Of course the diesel mileage is MUCH better and enough better to offset the extra 10-20% diesel costs around here.

[Matra et Alpine]

The total amount of power going to the wheels mechanically vs the generator is still unknown but I suspect most of the engines toque still feeds the generator.

another possible "tweak" they could use to improve mileage.
By controlling the flux and output of the electric motor they could reduce to near zero it's load in that mode of operation so most of the extra is going to moving things.
Or ideally run the engine at peak efficiency and then split the load with enough to maintain the motive energy and the remaining to charge the battery.
Which is more efficient at any time would prove to be an interesting challenge for the drivetrain management team.

[NSXType-R]

GM didn't lie at all. Some journalists are stupid but GM didn't lie.

It was always going to be a hybrid once the battery was discharged. However, it is a FULL 100% EV until then. Many people are confused about the second motor kicking in. When you are in EV mode the second ELECTRIC motor will kick in at speeds over 70mph. That still means batteries only. The gas motor will NOT help in EV mode and EV mode has no speed limit other than the car's 101mph governed limit.

When in extended range mode the need to reduce the speed of the main electric motor still exists. Since the second electric motor is being used to generate electricity it can't also be used to help the main motor as it does in EV mode. Since the gas motor is connected to the second electric motor and since the electric motor can be connected to the planetary gear, the gas motor sends some amount of torque directly to the wheels. At the same time it is still turning the generator. The total amount of power going to the wheels mechanically vs the generator is still unknown but I suspect most of the engines toque still feeds the generator.

From what I understood, I thought GM had said that even if the gasoline engine were to come on, it would go straight to generating electricity, not to power the wheels directly.

[culver]

Nope, GM never said that the gas motor wouldn't be mechanically connected though they were careful to say direct vs indirect and the never corrected people like me who assumed that meant electrical only. GM has been clear that the gas motor will never be used in EV mode. That means until you run the battery down you will run only on batteries all the way up to 101mph. I would suggest reading motor trend's description of the Volt power train.

[Dino Scuderia]

GM had a Volt at the Petit LeMans...I looked at it, sat in it....it makes the Prius look sexy.

[culver]

Not seeing that. Having seen the Volt in person I can't see the Prius as better looking.

[Kitdy]

Not seeing that. Having seen the Volt in person I can't see the Prius as better looking.

I think the Prius is pretty brutal.

The Volt is pretty inoffensive.

[Ferrer]

Ferrer,
The 101mph speed limit is very reasonable for the US. Our highest legal speed limit is 80mph. I've said it in the past and I will say it again, I'm not in love with modern diesels. They don't suck like earlier diesels but I far prefer the 1.8T in my father's 1998 Passat or the 2.0T in his 2008 Passat to my brother's 2009 Jetta diesel. The Jetta isn't bad but it still lacks refinement even compared to the 12 year old 1.8T (and I mean as the 1.8T is now, not as it was new). Of course the diesel mileage is MUCH better and enough better to offset the extra 10-20% diesel costs around here.

I agree with that. And this is basically why my next car won't be a diesel.

But if we are concerned about fuel consumption... well I've just returned from a weekend out, done 615km with 3/4 of 51 litre tank. And that's including 400km at above (often well over it) 160km/h.

[NSXType-R]

Not really in the mood to start a new thread, but lately there's been issues with the Chevy Volt and fires when they crash.

Why they didn't think that would be an issue, I have no idea.

It's made from freaking Lithium, it's a reactive metal.

How stupid of them to not have thought of this.

GM at its best.

For some odd reason the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla don't seem to have the same issues, although that might be because the Tesla uses laptop batteries.

[henk4]

Not really in the mood to start a new thread, but lately there's been issues with the Chevy Volt and fires when they crash.

Why they didn't think that would be an issue, I have no idea.

It's made from freaking Lithium, it's a reactive metal.

How stupid of them to not have thought of this.

GM at its best.

For some odd reason the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla don't seem to have the same issues, although that might be because the Tesla uses laptop batteries.

from what I heard the fire in a Volt started in a vehicle three weeks after in had been crash tested. Apparently the salvage company had forgotten to take out the batteries, as required by GM instructions. The wreckage was left outside in the cold and somehow the batteries started leaking, finally resulting in a fire.

The above in combination with your reaction is exactly what I thought would happen after I read this a couple of weeks ago on a Dutch site. The header was: Volt catches fire after crash test.
So that is what sticks in people's minds, and they forget about why the car caught fire. (after three weeks).

[Dino Scuderia]

They did a big press release yesterday regarding crash tests trying to get out in front of any massive backlash against the car.

EV's and Hybrids are potential bio hazards in a crash just like any petrol vehicle...it's different chemicals to battle.

[RacingManiac]

As Henk said, GM has specific procedure in the treatment of the Volt in the event of a crash to negate the risk. NHTSA facility did not follow it, and fire ensues. While this hasn't been an issue with Prius, which uses less(and less volatile chemistry of the Ni-MH battery), it will potentially be an issue when they switch to Li, and probably an issue with Leaf. Its a case I think of conventional procedure not adapting to new technology quick enough...

GM is offering owners of Volt use of free "conventional" car if they feel unsafe and they are delaying Volt's export to Asia. But they said the purpose is to increase the training for the people to handle them.

[culver]

Not really in the mood to start a new thread, but lately there's been issues with the Chevy Volt and fires when they crash.

Why they didn't think that would be an issue, I have no idea.

It's made from freaking Lithium, it's a reactive metal.

How stupid of them to not have thought of this.

GM at its best.

For some odd reason the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla don't seem to have the same issues, although that might be because the Tesla uses laptop batteries.

To be clear there haven't been issues with fires. There has been only one fire and the details of the one fire have already been discussed. The other fires have had nothing to do with the Volt

[RacingManiac]

Volt And Consequences: GM Responds To NHTSA Volt Investigation | The Truth About Cars

I think this fills in some missing blanks...