Like many of you, I too have a car

[UK CARS]

actually, egg nog has not given me any rep points other than the standard 2 points or whatever for being new. all the rest of my rep points come from people who think I have made good points, like in the "why buy and suv" http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...2&page=2&pp=40 forum and the "swap engine-need opinion" http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?p=71954 forum, or a number of others. Have you actually read anything I wrote? or have you just made this assumption because I am friends with someone on the forum?

oh im very sorry mate...i just thought he might of been helping you out a bit! ...oh im so embarased ..hehe

well yeah that post was worthy of rep ....Damn i knew i would end up in humiliation ..........

[Egg Nog]

Just to clarify, I've only given Nigel positive rep once...

[Motorer1]

The unmistakable egg nog proof of ownership comes in a 4 frame set:

Jeez egg nogg, you even make your friends take that challenge!

[Nigel]

Jeez egg nogg, you even make your friends take that challenge!

LOL! That was primarily for the other users on the forum, and I thought it would be cool, and I was taking pictures of my car anyway.

[Nigel]

I just finished making a custom rear stut brace, what a difference it makes. It went from a very mild understeer to a moderate (wild in the rain) oversteer. It is sooooo much fun! Pictures to come tomorrow.

[Egg Nog]

I've got a photo of the strut brace...

Compare with the older engine shot (on the right)

[Matra et Alpine]

what ?
A lot of difference was attributed to a simple strut brace ?
Either the brace is the wrong dimensions and you've pushed out/in the camber or your bodyshell is BADLY fatigued

A strut brace would not make a BIG difference other than at the range of forces that VERY wide tyres would provide. The rubber will break adhesion from the road before sufficient force will be applied through the suspensions to move a major mounting compnent - unless as I said you've a badly fatigued body

So, if it truly has made THAT big a difference, I'd get to a laser alignment shop and check out each corner

[Nigel]

you are pretty quick! My car is 20 years old. To build the strut brace I cut out the two plates and the bar, then welded the bar to the plates while on the car. I took the bar off and painted it. When I went to put the bar back on it wouldnt fit! I ended up jacking up the car from the middle and putting a little bit of pressure on either side of the car to pop the brace back on. Is this really bad? I had to move it almost 5mm.

[Matra et Alpine]

you are pretty quick!

yep and knowledgable

and modest

... I ended up jacking up the car from the middle and putting a little bit of pressure on either side of the car to pop the brace back on. Is this really bad? I had to move it almost 5mm.

bad in SO many ways.

First, you've radically altered the geomotry of the suspension.
Second, you've potentially placed side pressure on the struts.
Third, you've a home-built piece of steel in compression.

so, why are those all bad ??
1) The suspension geometry was designed by the manufacturer to provide a stable and predictable handling car. You've taken it out of that. You need to return it to normal or get it adjusted. The camber will definately be out. To adjust the top of mcPherson struts to try to restor it you'll need to fit concetric plates and rotate them. You MAY have affected the castor as well.
You may need to lengthen the bottom arm length to have the strut operate within design bouds. To do that, you'd need to fi adjustable rose joints ( easiest) or fab new bottom arms. You may have introduced braking/acceleration induced steering as the suspension travels. Gettin them all back will be a challenge !!
2) If the struts are not running 'true' - ie angle of the top is distorted ot side pressure being applied then you will burst the seals on the damper fairly quickly. Dampers don't like dideways forces. Suspension is designed NOT to give any - until you jack it and force it apart. As well as wear, at it's extremem it may jam, bend and break.
3)That strut is taking forces you may not have engineered it to do. Under constant compression I'd be worried that the weld onto the top plates will shear. If this happens mid cornering the sudden shift of 5mm will through the car faster than you can think. You'll be SERIOUSLY off into the woods backwards ! If it happens while you're working on the engine -- well steel pieces flying at hundresds of mph from a strees fracture embeed pretty deeply into skin and bone ( my old man was buried with a piece of spitfire still in his skull !! )

The big problem is you may have already done damage in forcing things out, they may never return to original position.

I'd advise getting it out as quickly as possible.

Second, I'd advise scrapping it if you want to drive fast. It will always be a bit of a liability now.
You can mitigate some of that by getting the geomettry checked over and hopefully the manufcatrers adjustments are enough to get it all back in line.

Alternatively, drive it carefully - after all it's not any worse than being side-swiped by an SUV and continuing to drive.

Sorry if that all sounds a bit scary. Not the intent to frighten you , but you DO have to think what's important in your life. Wouldn't want you to lose the latter !!!

[johnnynumfiv]

When you welded the braces to the struts, did weld a bead continously or in sections? The warp of the metal from the weld probably cause your problem in the first place.

[Matra et Alpine]

giveing you say you welded it in place and it came OFF OK, then I don't think you've got ditortion.

Are you sure you put it back on the same way round ?
it could be as simple as swapping the ends round

Either way you don't want that bar in place as it is now !!

[Nigel]

I cut out the plates, put them in place, then tacked the bar on, then put a solid bead around, then drove it for a while, then had a real hard time getting it off, then jacked the car up to get it back on. I am just about to do a major suspension upgrade (DIY) with tokiko HP struts, suspension techniques lowering springs, and High and Tight polyurithane bushings, so I am going to have my allignment done, etc.

I will take your advice and modify the brace so that it slides on nicely.

[Matra et Alpine]

OK, Nige, as you will be stripping all the rear suspension for the upgrade parts and to rebush it I'd advise getting the alignment info from a bodyshop and doing a check. It will be easier to jack things back into place and then put on your new suspension than find after you've put it all back that there is a twist. Suspension adjustments are not great at removing twist effects.

If you check the poitions of the strut top and each suspension bush point then you can ensure a better starting position to then build a more consistent handling car.

Good luck with it. Cheers .

[Nigel]

Doesnt that seem a little overkill? couldnt I just remove the bar and put in the suspension stuff and just go with it?

[Matra et Alpine]

Doesnt that seem a little overkill? couldnt I just remove the bar and put in the suspension stuff and just go with it?

I'd suggested it as you were obviosuly stripping it all out anyway.
It's easy to check the turret tops and pivots with no suspension in place and the figures are availabel in any bodyshop manual.
Yes it's overkill for ordinary street use.
At worst you'll get funny tyre wear and odd handling that you may well get used to.
I've raced/rallied/crashed too many cars to let me NOT check alignment and especially if any damage/twist may have been there. Last thing I wat to condsider is the consequences of a strut breaking on a corner doing 100+mph.
Maybe you want to let us know what you're planning on doing with the car. I'd assumed the upgrading of suspension parts was for seriosu driving as a coat of paint would be enough for the look.