The new Vauxhall VXR8

[motorsportnerd]

"It is actually quite difficult to skid a base model Falcon or Commodores."

my work car will testify otherwise. it has the worn out rear tyres to prove it, (a BF Futura btw). very easy to get it sideways or frying the tyres from a standing start. the traction control does kick in, but doesnt completely override the driver input of me with both feet on the accelorator, billowing clouds of smoke behind me as i race off to get another speeding ticket etc..

I'll return to this comment now that I have read it properly. I remember reading in Wheels magazine a few years back that the BF Futura came equipped with very low quality tyres, which Wheels argued complete spoiled the car's handling balance as the tyres had no grip. They mentioned that the other models in the range came with better quality tyres as standard, and rightly panned Ford for penny pinching on the Futura spec.

Putting aside the make of car for a minute, tyres make a huge difference to a car's handling, ride and grip. That Futura you drive would be transformed if fitted with high quality rubber on the standard wheels or if fitted with 17-inch wheels and decent tyres as per the XR6 NA and Fairmont Ghia. It wouldn't suddenly become a sports car, but its behaviour would probably be much improved.
When I bought my own Fairmont it had standard 16-inch wheels with cheap Chinese tyres. These tyres had no grip, poor ride quality, were noisy and squealed at very low speeds on any corner. Needless to say, these tyres didn't last long. I fitted 17-inch wheels from the Fairmont Ghia with Bridgestone tyres. No other mods were done. The result was a transformation of the car's behaviour. As a result of the tyres, the car was quieter, rode more comfortably, had grip, turned in better and had more steering feel.
I now have Bob Jane T-Mart tyres (made by Bridgestone in fact) fitted and I won't be going back to 16-inch tyres fitted with Chinese rubber.

[motorsportnerd]

also on car sales, the cheapest audi rs4, a 2006 with 85380 k's is $82990, a bit more than your claimed $30k.[/URL]

but anyway, we wont get caught up on on detail eh?

I'll come back to this as well. Found a 2004 Audi S4 B6 - admittedly with 156,000km on the clock - for $38K: http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automo...=true&AdOnTop=

These cars were $110K in 2004 (just looked back at an old mag), so that's a decent saving as its now worth about 38% of its new value. I have to admit I'd be tempted if spending $40K on a car.

So, the earlier Audi S4 B5 should be available for less - provided you can find one. There aren't many for sale of any age it seems.

Those Falcon XR6 Turbos you linked before were $46,000 in 2004, and now $12,000 or so, so they are worth 26% of their 2004 value.

So, yes, in percentage terms the Audi has done better. But in dollar terms I personally would not be happy to throw away $70K on a car in just over six years. Then again, I probably won't be spending $110K on a car any time soon, so this is not something I personally have to consider.

[motorsportnerd]

compare also a golf and a barina, its not really a contest, the golf is superior wherever you look, as well as resale, which is one big factor for me, as when it comes time to trade up, i dont want to be forking out money that i dont need to.

I don't think a Barina should be compared with anything other than walking. And even then, I think I'd prefer to walk....
A $12K Barina or Barina Spark should only be considered by those who MUST buy a new car and cannot walk or use public transport. Walking and all forms of public transport are vastly superior modes of transport to a Barina.
In fact, I can't think of any $12K new car that's worth buying. Better off spending another $4-5K and looking at Suzuki Swift, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, VW Polo, Ford Fiesta, etc.

[clutch-monkey]

even though you have completely missed my point (old mate said that rs4's could be had for $30k, which it would appear they cant ...), i dont really understand your point, with respect to say for instance a new $40k commodore / falcon, whats that worth after four years, mmm .... $10 - $15 K?. if that much at all. i.e. you have just bled about 75% of the original purchase price. the audi has nothing on the falcon and commodore for depreciation, they are the kings.

i'm not sure if this is serious or not.
the falcon is a common commuter car like an echo, it is expected to depreciate.
the bonus is that it happens to come with some trick suspension and engine goodies to make it far more appealing.

to then compare depreciation to a limited run, near exotic saloon is ridiculous.. especially when said saloon has depreciated by over 50% in any case as well.

[csl177]

i'm not sure if this is serious or not.

So far the apples 'n oranges thing isn't working very well.

[fpv_gtho]

I agree that both Ford and Holden could push the envelope more - especially with the high end luxury and FPV/HSV variants.
For the low end bread & butter stuff around $40K, it is less necessary..

I think they can be cut some slack at times given some of the circumstances some models have been developed under. In the future though with more parent company support i'd agree though the excuses are running out.

[ozzycarnut]

I know I Johnny come lately to this but what the hell.
I have of the thought the same thing. How on earth can you justify paying more for a 3 litre 6 cylinder BMW. My boss has a new one. Can’t believe what she paid for it. It is spectacularly unspectacular for the outrageous price premium.



Yeah, er, money well spent huh…

I will introduce some fact into this discussion. Hope you are ok with that.

The VE Commodore started development in 1999. Holden, yes pissy little Ozzy only Holden actually designed a ne platform for this car. Holden, the guys you claim “have evolved little”.
a bit of curry for baseless fact less sweeping comments, nah…

I know you are exaggerating and making this crap up to prove a point but seriously.


Plenty of worse built Commodores and Fords are still driving around the roads today. So are the BMWs and Mercs. It’s just that the owners of the Fords and Holden’s didn’t ditch as much in depreciation on them .

*throws hands up* whats the point of even responding to your tripe? at least an individual such as motortrend will consider a viewpoint, and although we may not agree, will respond with a valid argument etc, rather than it would appear muttering bs in between french kissing your kingswood. take your rosy coloured glasses of mate, every man and his dog knows falcons and commodores are garbage, just you seem to refuse to acknowledge this. and lastly, if you dont have a solid viewpoint, something constructive to highlight, rather than nit picking at what i have had to say, i suggest you refrain from commenting at all.

[ozzycarnut]

i'm not sure if this is serious or not.
the falcon is a common commuter car like an echo, it is expected to depreciate.
the bonus is that it happens to come with some trick suspension and engine goodies to make it far more appealing.

to then compare depreciation to a limited run, near exotic saloon is ridiculous.. especially when said saloon has depreciated by over 50% in any case as well.

falcon is a 'common commuter car'?! ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! (just wait a sec while i grab a tissue to wipe my eyes from laughing so hard ...) you must be joking. the falcon was designed as a large family car, to tow, to cruise along highways at 100kph, not for commuting. commuting, by my definition, is stop start, stop start, for an hour each way in gridlock surrounds, you'd be a retard to do this in a 6 cylinder car. whats the point of using a v6 to 'commute' if your average speed is less than say 20 kph? one would be looking for the cheapest car to run, and its certainly not a falcon. again, you have missed my point re depreciation. *wonders if its a full moon*

[clutch-monkey]

So far the apples 'n oranges thing isn't working very well.

yeah i don't really get it either.

THIS JUST IN

you shouldn't buy a ferrari because they will depreciate more than a corolla and cost more to maintain.

commuting, by my definition, is stop start, stop start, for an hour each way in gridlock surrounds, you'd be a retard to do this in a 6 cylinder car.

i commute every day in a 6 cylinder car.. although being able to choose my own hours i'm not so foolish as to always get stuck in stop start traffic..

[motorsportnerd]

also on car sales, the cheapest audi rs4, a 2006 with 85380 k's is $82990, a bit more than your claimed $30k.[/URL]

but anyway, we wont get caught up on on detail eh?

I found the article I got the $30K figure from. Top Gear Australia, February 2010 issue. The article was written by Joe Kenwright and was refering to the 2000 Audi RS4 Wagon and gave a current price range of $22-30K. Which I thought cheap at the time. But then it is a ten year old car.
However, it is unlikely that I will find one for sale anytime soon in Australia since so few are here. And when one does turn up it will probably be outside the price range given in the article as such a rare car would be worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it.

So, it wasn't a good choice to illustrate my argument that European cars do depreciate quite significantly. I'll chose better next time.
However, should one turn up for sale, and should it be in the price range given by the Top Gear article then it would make a very tempting option for any enthusiast with the money to afford to run it. And while it may have depreciated quite a bit, it won't depreciate much further since its a future classic in the making.

[crisis]

*throws hands up* whats the point of even responding to your tripe? at least an individual such as motortrend will consider a viewpoint, and although we may not agree, will respond with a valid argument etc, rather than it would appear muttering bs in between french kissing your kingswood. take your rosy coloured glasses of mate, every man and his dog knows falcons and commodores are garbage, just you seem to refuse to acknowledge this. and lastly, if you dont have a solid viewpoint, something constructive to highlight, rather than nit picking at what i have had to say, i suggest you refrain from commenting at all.

Wow. You ever looked up the term irony?
If not it may explain how you can happily use such vernacular as - “muttering bs in between french kissing your kingswood” to accuse me of “muttering bs”.

I appreciate we each have our personal preferences and what we want in a car. That’s all subjective really. Making judgements on areas such as technology and build quality is far more objective and can be backed up with facts, evidence and experience. Something not difficult to do but something you have not done.

The colourful way you describe the design and manufacturing process of Australian cars is based on conjecture born from what appears to be complete ignorance of the facts.

This thread was initially about the new Vauxhall VRX8 (HSV GTS). The article mentioned that it was “undercuts full-size super saloons like the Audi RS6, Jaguar XFR and Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG by between £13k and £29k”. You “had a problem” with this because “mercedes probably inject $1m into research and development for the lock on the glove box of their e class, whereas holden / Vauxhall would inject maybe $100 if you are lucky.” To me this is not only not ”a valid argument” but also “bs”. Unless you have information to the contrary but even then I don’t see where a $1m glove box actually advances the state of the art.

A comparison on purely technological terms between a VRX8 and a RS6 or E63 is probably not fair given the amount of money spent and as a result asked for these cars. However the VXR8 is not exactly bereft of technology.

Magnetic Ride Control (MRC), a suspension system which adapts up to 1000 times a seconds to road conditions and driver inputs.
Launch Control
Electronic Stability Control
Enhanced Driver Interface

What extra/other useful/functional/beneficial technology do the high “precision” "German, Italian and Japanese stuff" offer (glovebox notwithstanding) for the premium in price?

With a view to “considering a view point” and “responding with a valid argument”
Could you explain the reason you consider Falcons and Commodores “garbage” (and perhaps define garbage). Clearly the couple of million owners of Falcons and Commodores have somehow escaped your survey of people who “know” what you “know”.

May you also explain your definition of a “solid viewpoint”? From what I read it appears to be a prejudiced opinionated rant but I would hate to jump to conclusions.

[2ndclasscitizen]

falcon is a 'common commuter car'?! ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! (just wait a sec while i grab a tissue to wipe my eyes from laughing so hard ...) you must be joking. the falcon was designed as a large family car, to tow, to cruise along highways at 100kph, not for commuting. commuting, by my definition, is stop start, stop start, for an hour each way in gridlock surrounds, you'd be a retard to do this in a 6 cylinder car. whats the point of using a v6 to 'commute' if your average speed is less than say 20 kph? one would be looking for the cheapest car to run, and its certainly not a falcon. again, you have missed my point re depreciation. *wonders if its a full moon*

Are you 12yrs old and have never been near peak hour traffic or something?

[clutch-monkey]

A comparison on purely technological terms between a VRX8 and a RS6 or E63 is probably not fair

or relevant, considering from a driver's point of view they end up doing the same thing.

[whiteballz]

Are you 12yrs old and have never been near peak hour traffic or something?

Probably lives in Wagga or Parkes.. someplace traffic is a novel idea.

EDIT: Just realised that includes Brisbane.

[ozzycarnut]

yeah i don't really get it either.

THIS JUST IN

you shouldn't buy a ferrari because they will depreciate more than a corolla and cost more to maintain.

i commute every day in a 6 cylinder car.. although being able to choose my own hours i'm not so foolish as to always get stuck in stop start traffic..

good for you that you burn up your dough in fuel. im a bit smarter than that, i walk to work, 15 mins each way. i used to do the crawl like everyone else, an hour each way, in a 4 cyl.