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Thread: Team Lotus Buys Caterham

  1. #16
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    Damn. Scratch that. Well, as this would be a road car, a new motor would be designed. If they got motorcycle engineers on the job they could have a high reving turbo beast on their hands.... Its one thing I've always wondered, why haven't the likes of Ferrari and other exotic manufacturers turned to hiring motorcycle engineers.....
    "Don't think your time on bad things
    Just float your little mind around"
    Jimi Hendrix

  2. #17
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    There are already 3 excellent engines using the bike block cores to make ery potent V8s that weight nothing
    No need to get any new engineers in , just buy it in as before

    Bike engineers create engines that rev great but not necessairily good for torque or for stting cruising.
    So fine for very lightweight cars.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  3. #18
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    A high revving turbo four will always be lighter than a v8, regardless of scale. And torque issues can always be resolved by clever turbo management.

    I'd also like to know how carbon fiber weighs in in Caterhams future. I know they still use aluminum tube frames, but aren't their bodies still aluminum? I know the Levante had a carbon body at least. I wonder if we will ever see a monocoque Caterham. Its probably beyond their money capabilities, but if they get into motorsport through this F1 connection they could have more customers over night if they win.
    "Don't think your time on bad things
    Just float your little mind around"
    Jimi Hendrix

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum9987 View Post
    A high revving turbo four will always be lighter than a v8, regardless of scale. And torque issues can always be resolved by clever turbo management.
    I would like to see some examples to quantify this. I know that in the theoretical sense, this is an incorrect statement, but say, if we compare the micro V8s in the Levante and Atom 500 to the Turbo 4 in the Elise, are you sure this is the case?

  5. #20
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    turbo cannot get torque at low revs.
    Needs supercharger adn then it's taking lots of power when you dont want it

    By the time you go large turbo on a small I4 you get to being quite heavy
    Especially if looking at bike tech with light alloys and designed for revs not torque.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    turbo cannot get torque at low revs.
    what do you consider to be low revs?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  7. #22
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    not talking diesel, Pieter or, in examples I'm citing, "road use"
    and was discounting twin turbo due to the extra weight/bulk relative to bike engine sizes
    The race ones defiantely dont come "on song" till about 6-7K ... but still rev out to 11
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    not talking diesel, Pieter or, in examples I'm citing, "road use"
    and was discounting twin turbo due to the extra weight/bulk relative to bike engine sizes
    The race ones defiantely dont come "on song" till about 6-7K ... but still rev out to 11
    neither was I, as, for instance, the 335i BMW has its maximum torque at 1300 revs....with one turbo.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #24
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    and is three and a half litres of I6.
    Yeah different beast to what I was referring to in this thread.
    By the time you fit an I6 and a Turbo you'll be sitting behind the rear wheels and struggling to see over the top in a Caterham
    ( OK, I know I exagerate, but point was I wasnt thinking of bigger lumps )
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    and is three and a half litres of I6.
    Yeah different beast to what I was referring to in this thread.
    By the time you fit an I6 and a Turbo you'll be sitting behind the rear wheels and struggling to see over the top in a Caterham
    ( OK, I know I exagerate, but point was I wasnt thinking of bigger lumps )
    I suggest the new BMW/PSA THP would also fit in a Caterham, it develops max torque as of 1400 revs....a whopping hundred revs more than the 335i engine
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #26
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    hmmm, yes not sure about how well new gen high pressure turbo would be.
    BUT looking at

    That's not a low engine
    Bike engines are canted over to fit in Caterhams. There really is no height to play with
    But it's "only" 150hp .... can get that out of a stock 1400cc bike engine without any fancy turbo add ons ( just fuel usage sucks! )
    Interesting though but sadly for motorsport as a turbo it will be rated in the over 2litre category due to multiplier and suddenly it's trying to compete with 500hp EVOs
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    hmmm, yes not sure about how well new gen high pressure turbo would be.
    BUT looking at

    That's not a low engine
    Bike engines are canted over to fit in Caterhams. There really is no height to play with
    But it's "only" 150hp .... can get that out of a stock 1400cc bike engine without any fancy turbo add ons ( just fuel usage sucks! )
    Interesting though but sadly for motorsport as a turbo it will be rated in the over 2litre category due to multiplier and suddenly it's trying to compete with 500hp EVOs
    it is designed for a front engined car, in a transverse position, so that is right for the Caterham. The point was that you mentioned that turbos don't work at low revs...apparently they do here.
    I also think the same block is used in some fancy versions of the Mini, producing well over 200 BHP and also the DS3 WRC car has this little gem of a block.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #28
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    A WRC engine is NOTHING like it's mainstream

    I race against a Rover 25 fitted with an ex-BTCC engine and the ONLY part the same is the block. The rest is racing componentry bearing no relation ( even in size ) to the "ordinary" one. He spent more on his engine than I did in buying my first house !!

    your transverse quote had me confused and then I realised my error. I was thinking "traditional" Caterham where we're really thinking the Elise transfer so packaging completely different and negating most of what I'd said before

    I'd liek to see the torque of the higher powered versions and I'll guess that they will be worse lower down on a single turbo. It's hard to get too competing requirements in the one solution Even with variable lift and timing it's hard to get low running effective.

    Over 200hp in the back of an Elise wont hack it for the buyers of a Caterham copy I dont think tho Caterham made there name in producing more powerful variants of the Lotus, not less. So I think they'd need to top the 220 of the Toyota to sell.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  14. #29
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    If you should see a man walking down a crowded street talking aloud to himself, don't run in the opposite direction, but run towards him, because he's a poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet - but the truth.

    (Ted Joans)

  15. #30
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    I may be completly wronge here but Caterham could use a 5cyl engine, maybe a 2.5l. Then it will have more torque at a low rpm. What do you think, i may be completly wronge.
    Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
    — Jeremy Clarkson

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