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  1. #1
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    Diesel cars in America

    I am getting really annoyed... I want a Diesel Audi or Merc or Jaguar, but look at what I have to chose from here in the US

    http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Tru...5.l1513&_pgn=1

    This is so rediculous! I cant believe with all these stupid hybrid cars and trucks they are making that they can't supply us with a decent alternative. Most people know that Diesel cars have much better gas mileage than a hybrid. In Europe they have so many to chose from. Why Is America being such a communist?!

  2. #2
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    I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.

    They, that are able to avoid them...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.

    They, that are able to avoid them...
    What are you talking about? They are so much better on gas. Why would you not want one for a family car? I was looking on UK ebay website and its about 50/50 for petrol and diesel. I don't understan why Americans want us to have cars with poor gas mileage... Pretty much all we have to chose from is a Mercedes E class 320/330/350 or a VW Jetta... thats pretty sad. The Jaguar diesel is an excellent car...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.

    They, that are able to avoid them...
    Torque. And fuel economy.

    Diesel should be a no brainer.

    Except the greenies decided to get into the fray and requre diesels to meet more stringent emissions standards, thereby REDUCING their economy and introducing more complication under the hood.

    *sigh* government.
    Last edited by jcp123; 05-01-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    Torque. And fuel economy.

    Diesel should be a no brainer.

    Except the greenies decided to get into the fray and requre diesels to meet more stringent emissions standards, thereby REDUCING their economy and introducing more complication under the hood.

    *sigh* government.
    Emission control is good, no one wants the air pollution like China...Diesel is more critical for NOx and particulate control, you don't want to breath that stuff in....
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    Torque. And fuel economy.

    Diesel should be a no brainer.

    Except the greenies decided to get into the fray and requre diesels to meet more stringent emissions standards, thereby REDUCING their economy and introducing more complication under the hood.

    *sigh* government.
    Fuel economy only.

    The typical European diesel engine struggles to get past 200ft-lb. Surely, the typical American 7.8-litre V8 has more torque.

    You also get turbo lag, worse NVH characteristics and a heavier nose (which upsets weight distribution). And on the subjective camp, nowhere near as pleasant as petrol engine.

    Diesels only make sense in Europe for two reasons: One our fuel prices have shot through the roof (I spend 300 a month in petrol and my car isn't especially thirsty) and two diesel is cheaper than petrol.

    When I went to Switzerland I noticed than most cars had petrol engines, and I wondered why. It was only when I stopped at a fuel station that I learnt that diesel is actually more expensive than 98RON petrol.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Fuel economy only.
    I was skeptical so, I looked into this for USDM cars/trucks and found:
    Cummins 6.7l 24-Valve I6 Turbodiesel: 320hp, 650lbft (880Nm)
    Powerstroke 6.7l 32-Valve V8 Turbodiesel: 390hp, 735lbft (1,000Nm)
    Duramax 6.6l LML 32-Valve V8 Turbodiesel: 400hp, 765lbft (1,040Nm)

    That is a lot of torque. Their gasoline engines, of comparable displacement make:
    392cid HEMI 6.7l 16-Valve V8: 470hp, 470lbft (640Nm)
    Triton 6.8l 30-Valve V10: 360hp, 460lbft (620Nm)
    [Coyote/Modular Shelby Cobra 5.8L 32-Valve V8 Supercharged: 660hp, 620lbft (850Nm)]
    Vortec 6200 6.2l 16-Valve V8: 400hp, 415lbft (565Nm)
    [LS7 7.0l 16-Valve V8: 505hp, 470lbft (640 Nm)]
    [Vortec 8100 8.1l 16-Valve V8: 400hp, 690lbft (940Nm) (I am slightly suspicious of this)]

    So the numbers aren't quite as far off as I might have thought; the gasoline engines make about 2/3 as much torque as the diesels. So, if they rev 1.5 times as much as the diesels they should make the same power, which would only mean revving to under 5,000rpm. I tried to use truck engines only with HiPo engines in brackets.

    Obviously this is not an apples-to-apples comparison as all the diesels are forcibly inducted and only the Shelby gas engine is. So I looked to the modern range of smaller displacement gas turboes:

    Powerstroke 3.2l 20-Valve I5 Turbodiesel: 250hp, 400lbft (540Nm)
    EcoBoost 3.5l 24-Valve V6 Turbo: 365hp, 420lbft (570Nm)

    It seems you may have a point.
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  8. #8
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    When your fuel tank costs a million to fill up, you buy a tiny little diesel hatchback. Like commie euros do.

    When your fuel tank costs tupence to fill up, you buy a massive V8-engined truck. Like yanks do.

    Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US car enthusiasts have with diesel.

    Oh and by the way, if you are a proper petrol head you can't have a Jag with a diesel. It's missing completely the point of the car.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    When your fuel tank costs a million to fill up, you buy a tiny little diesel hatchback. Like commie euros do.

    When your fuel tank costs tupence to fill up, you buy a massive V8-engined truck. Like yanks do.

    Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US car enthusiasts have with diesel.

    Oh and by the way, if you are a proper petrol head you can't have a Jag with a diesel. It's missing completely the point of the car.
    This commie euro has just bought a C3 Ehdi (as a second car) which promises an average of 22-23 km liter. More details when it will arrive later this month.
    The other diesel this commie euro is driving behaves exactly like the majority of US drivers appreciate, lots of low end torque and spirited acceleration (to a certain extent) when needed, but also doing 15-16 km per liter on average.

    Yesterday this commie euro was driving his wife's petrol Stilo for a longer trip and the sound of the engine is really annoying and you actually have to rev it to get some proper progress. Revving is soooo 20th century....

    and yes, I might end up one day with having the Jaguar diesel in a new C5.....but that is really communist thinking because it only comes with an autobox.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US car enthusiasts have with diesel.
    People want what they don't/can't have. New and exciting!
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  11. #11
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    I think up to some price point people ceased to care about fuel economy and diesel makes less sense....I think that point is about where the E class/5 series diesel sits....

    We(North American) are generally lacking in diesel options IMO in smaller cars. The mid-range car we can get them in diesels now if you buy European. Big diesels(Q7 V12, Tourag V10...etc) are probably niche even in EU that it makes even less sense here.
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  12. #12
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    It's funny you mention revving up Pieter, since my V6 sits comfortably at 1200-1400rpm even in 5th, while pretty much all diesels I've driven (that I can remember) only start to pull from 2000rpm.

    As for NVH, well there's really no contest is there? Especially the cheaper you go.

    By the way, the Jag diesel isn't a Jag diesel. Jag borrowed it from PSA-Ford.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    It's funny you mention revving up Pieter, since my V6 sits comfortably at 1200-1400rpm even in 5th, while pretty much all diesels I've driven (that I can remember) only start to pull from 2000rpm.

    As for NVH, well there's really no contest is there? Especially the cheaper you go.

    By the way, the Jag diesel isn't a Jag diesel. Jag borrowed it from PSA-Ford.
    Well, the C5 pulls away easily in sixth from 1300-1400 revs....and I belief so does your car, but mine does it for half the fuel costs.....
    and yes, I know what the Jag diesel is, but I wanted Fastdriver to wonder about that....

    what NVH is, escapes me at the moment.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    Well, the C5 pulls away easily in sixth from 1300-1400 revs....and I belief so does your car, but mine does it for half the fuel costs.....
    Probably less than half...
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    and yes, I know what the Jag diesel is, but I wanted Fastdriver to wonder about that....
    I guess now that he knows it's actually a french engine it has become shit...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post

    I guess now that he knows it's actually a french engine it has become shit...
    good point.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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