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Thread: Diesel cars in America

  1. #181
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    Does anyone know if there is a diesel mated to a CVT?
    "Don't think your time on bad things
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  2. #182
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    Yeah, apparently the C5 A6 had a CVT diesel, as well as a Benz of some kind.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post



    Do you have a power & torque graph for that engine? I'd hoped that twin turbochargers could be used to eliminate turbo lag and the "dead" zone from idle...however having driven a 123d, even that isn't completely successful and still doesn't feel as responsive as a petrol.
    The funny thing is that this famous turbo-lag is always highlighted by the opponents of diesel engines. They forget to realise that this lag briefly occurs at rev-levels where petrol cars have no guts at all......(and they also fail to mention it about turbocharged petrol engines ).

    No, I do not have a graph, but the specs are here

    Reprogrammation moteur Citroen C5 2.2 HDi FAP 173pk Reprogrammation de moteur
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  4. #184
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    How many times must we walk down this road?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    How many times must we walk down this road?
    Not all roads need to be walked if you don't feel like it....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #186
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    How many roads must a thread walk down, before you can call it locked?
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimento View Post
    An 8 speed gearbox will also assist with that.
    Assuming you mean an automatic, then yes...although any good torque converter auto will cure the "dead" spot from idle (though autos are slow to react from standstill anyway ).

    All of my comments in this thread refer to cars with manual gearboxes unless I've stated otherwise. I do agree that a 2.0-litre diesel auto in something like an Accord would suit many Americans...but some seem to promote diesel as the answer to everything, when clearly it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    The funny thing is that this famous turbo-lag is always highlighted by the opponents of diesel engines. They forget to realise that this lag briefly occurs at rev-levels where petrol cars have no guts at all......(and they also fail to mention it about turbocharged petrol engines ).
    You say "where petrol cars have no guts at all", but quite simply that isn't the case. To illustrate my point, imagine approaching a junction with a busy road. You're in 2nd gear doing under 10 mph when you see a gap in the traffic. You put your foot down to pull out into the gap. Any decent petrol (even forced induction) is responsive enough to instantly deliver some power to get you into that gap. Every diesel I've ever tried would take a couple of seconds to get through the flat spot before it could respond.

    From standstill (idle revs), my 320i would easily out accelerate a 320d. My C4 HDi would lag behind the equivalent 1.6 petrol. The same is true of most cars when your compare petrols with equivalent diesels.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    Yes, it's used in several other cars too. It's a parallel sequential turbo IIRC but what I'm interested in is the bottom end of the torque curve. It would be a good match for an automatic gearbox. - As I have said, I actually prefer the EGS version of the C4 to my own.
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
    You say "where petrol cars have no guts at all", but quite simply that isn't the case. To illustrate my point, imagine approaching a junction with a busy road. You're in 2nd gear doing under 10 mph when you see a gap in the traffic. You put your foot down to pull out into the gap. Any decent petrol (even forced induction) is responsive enough to instantly deliver some power to get you into that gap. Every diesel I've ever tried would take a couple of seconds to get through the flat spot before it could respond.

    From standstill (idle revs), my 320i would easily out accelerate a 320d. My C4 HDi would lag behind the equivalent 1.6 petrol. The same is true of most cars when your compare petrols with equivalent diesels.


    you are highly exaggerating, I would be in third gear in the circumstances you describe, and believe me, it will push....and what it lacks in the beginning of the process is made up with more than you would ever get from a petrol car during the remaining part of the action.

    Accelerating from idle revs is indeed not the forte of diesel engines, but 0-60 or 0-100 sprints are not part of my daily driving....(don't know about you though), but I think there are 320d versions available that will beat your 320i.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    you are highly exaggerating,
    I'm deadly serious. You are welcome to try my C4 if you're ever in my locale.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    I would be in third gear in the circumstances you describe, and believe me, it will push....and what it lacks in the beginning of the process is made up with more than you would ever get from a petrol car during the remaining part of the action.
    So you can accelerate from under 10 mph in 3rd? When does your anti-stall kick-in in? The C4 won't go below 16 mph in 3rd unless you depress the clutch and then feather it.

    You also have twin turbochargers on your 2.0-litre engine. Comparing outright pace to a NA 2.0-litre petrol is unfair (I was talking about responsiveness)...but then again I'd like to see you out accelerate a Civic Type-R (no really, I would - it'd be hilarious! ).

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    Accelerating from idle revs is indeed not the forte of diesel engines, but 0-60 or 0-100 sprints are not part of my daily driving....(don't know about you though), but I think there are 320d versions available that will beat your 320i.
    No, no 0-60s for me either...but plenty of 30-70 through the gears. And yes, the latest 320d will outperform my car, but then again it should considering the age gap. It won't touch the new petrol 328i though!
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
    So you can accelerate from under 10 mph in 3rd? When does your anti-stall kick-in in?
    You also have twin turbochargers on your 2.0-litre engine. Comparing outright pace to a NA 2.0-litre petrol is unfair (I was talking about responsiveness)...but then again I'd like to see you out accelerate a Civic Type-R (no really, I would - it'd be hilarious! ).
    I can get into third gear from standstill without moving the throttle, it will run on idle, (should check the actual speed next time). And mine is 2.2 and not two.
    (what gear would the Civic be in? First?)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #191
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    Some diesels will out accelerate a petrol in the same power band, Take the old BMW 120D 177 BHP 0-60 in about 7.5 sec and the 120i with 170 bhp in 7.7. Not much diffrence, but still.
    Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
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  12. #192
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    I don't do much of that type of manoevering. Much more important to me is that midrange punch (for passing and the like) - downshifting is optional. I like that.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    I can get into third gear from standstill without moving the throttle, it will run on idle, (should check the actual speed next time). And mine is 2.2 and not two.
    Yeah; mine would just stall lol!

    Anecdotally, I have moved-off in 3rd once in the C4 due to the gearbox freezing last winter (-20 Celsius)! - I could only select 3rd or 4th and had to move the car to get the Corsa out. Much clutch feathering went on, and after smelling the results I won't be trying it again for fear of doing damage!

    (I started typing this reply last night; Murphy's law dictates that this morning, the C4's gearbox had frozen again! )

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    (what gear would the Civic be in? First?)
    That's the whole point, haha! If you drove one and didn't use the upper half of the rev range, you'd wonder what all the hype and fuss was all about. Having said that, one would hope that in a race, you'd want the C5 in the appropriate gear also.

    Speaking of which; have you had the chance to try the new model yet? It has a great interior and I think the steering wheel is even better than the one in the C4!
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  14. #194
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    well if you have a CVT you are almost always within close proximity to peak torque (and in a diesel that would mean it was pushing boost), so throttle lag would be very little in a torque engine. I've driven a CVT only one time, and it was a petrol car, and compared to an automatic, response was excellent. I can't speak for diesel, the only diesel car I've ever driven was my grandpa's truck, with a duramax diesel (non turbo) and an allison transmission, and the response of that was excellent, it was very easy to drive and I had instant torque, but it is a V8 afterall.
    "Don't think your time on bad things
    Just float your little mind around"
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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post

    That's the whole point, haha! If you drove one and didn't use the upper half of the rev range, you'd wonder what all the hype and fuss was all about. Having said that, one would hope that in a race, you'd want the C5 in the appropriate gear also.

    Speaking of which; have you had the chance to try the new model yet? It has a great interior and I think the steering wheel is even better than the one in the C4!
    Yep and the whole point of a diesel engine is that you can, nerve saving, stay in the lower half of the rev range (without giving up much of its performance(, and wonder what the fuss is all about those high revving, nerve racking, petrol engines.....
    Did not try a new C5, when I bought this one the new was just on the market, and is both smaller and heavier than mine. If the current car will be replaced, it will be by either a C6 or the C5 Tourer with the 3.0 V6 Hdi as also found in the Jaguar XF. That car would be an exact meeting of the general US demand for low revving, high torque engines, setback is that it is only available with a 6-speed autobox.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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