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Thread: Diesel cars in America

  1. #46
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    CVT.

    Or something.
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  2. #47
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    It's a bit stupid there's no Merc, Audi ect. Diesel cars in America, i know it cost a lot less to fill up but American’s should be taking advantage of it so i think it's stupid. I know Americans like gas guzzling cars but things are changing, some American’s what more eco cars.

    FD i can see what you mean; you want a good luxury car which is a diesel to get you from point A to B.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebrochureman View Post
    It's a bit stupid there's no Merc, Audi ect. Diesel cars in America
    Those are precisely the two car makers that offer diesel engines in the US.
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  4. #49
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    Things are changing in the US. Our $4/gallon prices are basically what Europe was talking about when we had $1.30/gallon prices. You guys didn't need encouragement to buy efficient cars with $4 gas (though much of Europe did have stupid displacement based taxes). Now that the US is seeing $4 gas it does affect what people want to buy and there is more interest in diesels in the US. Historically, with low gas prices diesels had almost no advantage for the average buyer. They were more expensive yet not better than gasoline engines in almost every way save for mileage. In the past 10-15 years they have finally almost matched gasoline motors for refinement and power. However, the latest emissions standards in the US are hurting diesels. The exception being diesel trucks have been popular for a while.

    It will be interesting to see how the US market changes given the real price of gas these days and the stupid CAFE laws we are pushing through.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebrochureman View Post
    It's a bit stupid there's no Merc, Audi ect. Diesel cars in America, i know it cost a lot less to fill up but American’s should be taking advantage of it so i think it's stupid. I know Americans like gas guzzling cars but things are changing, some American’s what more eco cars.

    FD i can see what you mean; you want a good luxury car which is a diesel to get you from point A to B.
    Exactly, thank you...

    I remember watching Top gear and they drove the diesel powered cars and were getting over 60 mpg... on my BMW 5 series strait 6 the best I could ever get was 35 on the highway... Why would you NOT want good fuel economy? I don't know about you guys, but i don't really enjoy going to the gas station. It is always out of my way, and I am always dreading it... Filling up the tank when I have other things to be doing is just annoying... And it always happens to get low on fuel when I have to be somewhere important... So why not fill up less often? Makes sense to me. But I guess It's not for everyone. Id like a big V8 Twin turbo Diesel that would be perfect. But I also want the luxory of mercedes or audi. Im looking at pre-owned becasue I am not spending $80,000 on a family car, but I still want it to be nice...

    I will probably end up getting a previous year Jetta, since the selection of merc and audi models right now is pretty dismal...
    Last edited by FastDriver; 05-10-2011 at 11:06 AM.

  6. #51
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    You still didn't say what you are looking for in terms of a "diesel car" Though. You can get anywhere from a $20K diesel sedan to $60+K SUV in diesel in US from those brands....No we don't have as much options but at the moment we are not completely out of them as we were maybe 10 years ago....
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by culver View Post
    Things are changing in the US. Our $4/gallon prices are basically what Europe was talking about when we had $1.30/gallon prices. You guys didn't need encouragement to buy efficient cars with $4 gas (though much of Europe did have stupid displacement based taxes). Now that the US is seeing $4 gas it does affect what people want to buy and there is more interest in diesels in the US. Historically, with low gas prices diesels had almost no advantage for the average buyer. They were more expensive yet not better than gasoline engines in almost every way save for mileage. In the past 10-15 years they have finally almost matched gasoline motors for refinement and power. However, the latest emissions standards in the US are hurting diesels. The exception being diesel trucks have been popular for a while.

    It will be interesting to see how the US market changes given the real price of gas these days and the stupid CAFE laws we are pushing through.
    Also, the US driving conditions are the ones which tend to neuter the diesel fuel consumption advantage.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
    You still didn't say what you are looking for in terms of a "diesel car" Though. You can get anywhere from a $20K diesel sedan to $60+K SUV in diesel in US from those brands....No we don't have as much options but at the moment we are not completely out of them as we were maybe 10 years ago....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Also, the US driving conditions are the ones which tend to neuter the diesel fuel consumption advantage.
    what are the US driving conditions?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Also, the US driving conditions are the ones which tend to neuter the diesel fuel consumption advantage.
    My sister has a Jetta TDi and her BF has a Ford Escape Hybrid. She absolutely loves her Jetta; she says the hybrid has much better fuel economy around town, but the diesel is fantastic on the highway. She also fills it with biodiesel as much as possible, which gives equal performance and better emissions, and, unlike ethenol, can be derived from waste products instead of corn.

    Living in a large city a hybrid is the better choice for me, but if I had a long commute I'd go for a BMW or Audi (or theoretically Jag) diesel. Of course when it comes to my sporty car, it's gasoline all the way.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Also, the US driving conditions are the ones which tend to neuter the diesel fuel consumption advantage.
    that is not true, under constant and relatively low speeds the diesels tend to be much more frugal than petrol cars. In case you speed up to german autobahn speeds, the difference becomes smaller.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastDriver View Post
    what are the US driving conditions?
    Relatively low, constant speeds on mostly easy roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    that is not true, under constant and relatively low speeds the diesels tend to be much more frugal than petrol cars. In case you speed up to german autobahn speeds, the difference becomes smaller.
    I'd say the opposite, based on my experiennce.

    The increase in fuel consumption with a careless right foot in a petrol car is exponential, while diesels are much less sensitive to throttle abuse.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Relatively low, constant speeds on mostly easy roads.

    I'd say the opposite, based on my experiennce.

    The increase in fuel consumption with a careless right foot in a petrol car is exponential, while diesels are much less sensitive to throttle abuse.
    that is true, but what I am saying is something else. When constant speeds increase, the relative advantage of a diesel engine tends to become smaller. And we are talking about constant speeds in the USA of 70 mph maximum. Under such part loads a diesel is much more efficient.
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  13. #58
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    Ah, I hadn't understood you Pieter.

    But still we have this thing caller corners. Which means that speed will not necessarily be constant (especially here in lazy, dirty, latinland). And that's where diesel really takes an advantage from petrol.
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  14. #59
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    I drive an old Toyota 4Runner now and again, and I really wish that it was diesel. The car seems so suited to being a diesel. Instead, it has a wheezy 4L V6 (something about that displacement and configuration irks me). Japanese manufacturers aren't as keen on diesel as Europeans I would suppose - even less so in the North American market.

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    Holden Cruze
    1.8 petrol, 104kw, 176nm, $26500, 7.4l/100k, 1480 litres per year
    2.0 diesel, 120kw, 360nm, $30,500, 6.7l/100k, 1340 litres per year

    Save 140 litres per year.
    $143 per year
    28 years to recoup price premium

    In this case the savings on fuel cannot be justified. The fact the diesel is more powerful with more torque however means it is a better performing car so that must be taken into the equation as a trade off.

    VW Golf
    1.4 petrol, 90kw, 200nm, $27500, 6.2l/100k, 1240 litres per year
    1.6 diesel, 77kw, 250nm, $30,000, 5.1l/100k, 1020 litres per year

    Save 220 litres per year
    $279 per year
    8 years to recoup price premium

    In this case the savings on fuel cannot be considered worth the addition purchase cost unless the driver travels substantially more kilometres a year. Even then the petrol engine is more powerful and only has marginally less torque.


    Ford Focus
    2l petrol, 107kw, 185nm, $24,000, 8.2l/100k, 1640 litres per year
    2l diesel, 100kw, 320nm, $29800, 5.9l/100k, 1180 litres per year

    Save 460 litres per year
    $772 per year
    7.5 years to recoup price premium

    In this case the fuel saving cannot justify the additional purchase cost. The additional torque while fine for moving acceleration doesn’t really offer much advantage in acceleration from start. And lets face it most of our acceleration is from start.

    Based on 20,000ks per annum, diesel $1.55lt, premium ULP $1.50lt

    Basically in these cases one really cannot justify the extra purchase cost of a diesel car if one is looking to save money. Especially if you are replacing the car after 4 or 5 years. And while torque is great, power is more useful (or at least more fun) in stop start city driving. The greatest advantage of diesel torque in my opinion is in large 4x4 wagons and the price premium in these cases can even be higher.
    Last edited by crisis; 05-10-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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