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Thread: The State of The Car

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    Pah! Weight concerns?

    You go tell that to Ford, with their 4,800 lb Explorer "SUV" that can barely tow its own weight.

    Saab is more dead than Opel, but that being said Opel may not be far behind.
    Opel / Vauxhall are only failing due to the "unique" way GM calculates it's finances...
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  2. #137
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    to summarize where automotive things have gone wrong, I made this shot of an A110 and some Mercedes Coupe visibly suffering from elephantiasis..... probably the Alpine will outrun the Mercedes on any secondary road.

    These are to scale - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    to summarize where automotive things have gone wrong, I made this shot of an A110 and some Mercedes Coupe visibly suffering from elephantiasis..... probably the Alpine will outrun the Mercedes on any secondary road.

    These are to scale - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information
    Generally, I wholeheartedly agree with your point...however although your examples are indeed both coupés, they're not the same "kind" of car and not really that comparable. Comparing the A110 to a 991 would sure be interesting though (especially as according to the motoring press, the 991 has become too fat, to sedate and has lost it's magic)!
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey View Post
    Generally, I wholeheartedly agree with your point...however although your examples are indeed both coupés, they're not the same "kind" of car and not really that comparable. Comparing the A110 to a 991 would sure be interesting though (especially as according to the motoring press, the 991 has become too fat, to sedate and has lost it's magic)!
    But I doubt it'll have trouble running down the Alpine on any road...
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  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    to summarize where automotive things have gone wrong, I made this shot of an A110 and some Mercedes Coupe visibly suffering from elephantiasis..... probably the Alpine will outrun the Mercedes on any secondary road.

    These are to scale - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information
    Well even normal cars too. A new USDM Civic is about the same size if not larger as a 2nd generation Accord.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
    But I doubt it'll have trouble running down the Alpine on any road...
    ...unless it has really tight width restrictors.
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  7. #142
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    Does anyone remember this car?

    2004 Toyota Volta - Images, Specifications and Information

    I still think it's pretty awesome looking.

    And I'd be pretty happy if Toyota came up with a production car variant of it, sort of as the LF-A for the Toyota brand and sell it for around 100 grand, maybe make it a 2 seater just to be practical.

    And what a nice set of BBS wheels on it too.

  8. #143
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    I was just reading an old report about the Renault Avantime, praising how amazing and new it was. The last sentence of the report is "It shows us how the future may be."

    Shame it was such a colossal failure. I always rather liked it, at least in theory. I've never driven, sat in or seen one.. but I'd like to.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  9. #144
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    We were driven around France in an Avantime when they were new... it was like a space ship. Very cool ride. A pillarless minivan was just too different to be successful. Renault brought the similar Vel Satis to market at roughly the same time which didn't help either... with Matra struggling, Renault chose to stop building the Avantime.
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimento View Post
    I was just reading an old report about the Renault Avantime, praising how amazing and new it was. The last sentence of the report is "It shows us how the future may be."

    Shame it was such a colossal failure. I always rather liked it, at least in theory. I've never driven, sat in or seen one.. but I'd like to.
    Quote Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
    We were driven around France in an Avantime when they were new... it was like a space ship. Very cool ride. A pillarless minivan was just too different to be successful. Renault brought the similar Vel Satis to market at roughly the same time which didn't help either... with Matra struggling, Renault chose to stop building the Avantime.
    Hmm, maybe I'm in the minority but I really don't see the appeal of an Avantime. A minivan-sized vehicle that seats 4? sure there's the cool panoramic roof, the stepped seating arrangement, the cool engineering in the doors, and perhaps the nicely designed cargo space.

    Can anyone compare the size of the car to an American sedan just so I can fathom how large it really is? And was it good on gas?

    Seems like they tried to make it like a practical SUV, although on the other hand, your article reminds me of the Pontiac Aztek- a really ugly car on the outside, but apparently a very well laid out car on the inside. Also, for those who bought the car, they were really happy with the car. Unfortunately, the same could be said about the Accord Crosstour.

    I'm still baffled at the design of the new Crosstour. What we need is a USDM sized Accord wagon not another CUV. Why can't Honda seize the opportunity and give us what we want? Make AWD an option, add a 6 speed manual across the range, and the option of a 4 cylinder or a 6 cylinder car. It's really not that hard, and it doesn't even need to look awesome- it just needs to work really well for it to sell like crazy. And if they're really trying to please the enthusiasts, sell a 4 door hatchback sporty version of the sedan. Remember a time when cars came in multiple variants?

  11. #146
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    Avantime: Size (L / W / H / WB) mm 4642 / 1830 / 1630 / 2702

    New Chevy Malibu: Size (L / W / H / WB) mm 4860 / 1855 / 1465 / 2737

    So about the same, but taller.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  12. #147
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    Found out this site in the internets.

    It contains insteresting information on the development of cars as well as trends (like the americans and the japanese taking on the germans).

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  13. #148
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    Something on the topic of what we were discussing-

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h_IcLn4JSg&feature=g-all-u"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h_IcLn4JSg&feature=g-all-u[/ame]

  14. #149
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    Interestin video. Thanks for sharing.

    I think they are right in many aspects. I'm personally not against technology per se, especially if it can improve safety, performance or economy, but I'm most definitely against technology that takes away the enjoyment of driving a car.

    The problem is that car enthusiasts are small minority of the car buying public (and in fact not all of them are actually in the car buying market at all), but even worse than that is that many of those enthusiasts think that an Audi S/RS model complete with dual clutch gearbox and everything is good performance car.

    So we are in the minority of the minority and that makes it very difficult. I'm afraid it's becoming a lost battle.

    On an unrelated note, it seems like there are those who think that US car manufacturers should pull the plug completely on their European operations, what's the general opinion here?

    Should GM and Ford give up on selling cars in Europe?
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  15. #150
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    I think it would be exceedingly myopic for Ford to leave Europe entirely. They aren't losing that much money, and I think with the closing of a few plants they could probably be made profitable again, or at least resume breaking even.
    Opel/Vauxhall seems to be in a weaker position and some fairly draconian belt tightening by the General seems to be the only way for them to continue European production. I don't know much about GM Yurp because they don't make any cars that interest me. So I can't justify my opinions regarding Opel very well then, but from all I've read they need to do something pretty drastic.
    The domestic manufacturers also need to axe a few plants because they are producing at one billion percent over demand.

    It will be interesting to see this situation unfold and I hope as few people are hurt and as few marques are lost as possible in the process.
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