beating the nissan gt-r around the ring

[Badsight]

the GTR has to have amazing handeling to be able to do that time at that weight (& HP)

[Badsight]

On the road it doesn't matter if your car can beat other cars around the Nurburgring, because you can't go that fast or push it that hard anyway. What matters is how it feels and how it makes you feel.

that isnt valid to me

the Ring shows off real world performance better than any other track

which is why a good lap around it carries weight & bragging rights

[kingofthering]

So, you can buy a Radical SR8 straight from a dealership in the U.S.? Can one drive a Radical SR8 in the snowy, rain-covered, roads....almost anywhere in the world? Does the Radical even have trunk space?

It's really not that difficult to understand; the GT-R can run around the 'ring, topping most of the exotics and be a daily commute car; a car you can drive to work, college, etc. with.

To answer your question, yes, yes you can. There's a kit to make it C.A. street-legal, which is quite ironic considering California's automobile laws.

Edit: Whoops - you CAN run the SR3 as a street-car, but apparently not the SR8.

Driving a GT-R to college? I either want your life or to at least attend your school!

[capone]

Seems like when Nissan do their own tests, they can get an extra 10 - 15 seconds as compared to independant tests. Probably the same goes with Porsche. All Nissan do with their GTR is perform 1000000000 laps of the "ring", tune their car specifically to get the most of it. Doesn't mean it will be quicker on other tracks. Still it will be quick but like a Porsche etc...

What I would like to see is the following:

1. Some millionare go to a Porsche dealership and buy either a 911 GT2 or Porsche Turbo S.
2. Then go to a Nissan dealership and buy a GTR.
3. Take both cars as purchased from the dealerships, DO NOT change anything and go and lap them on the same day, same time, same conditions (preferably on a dry track) and same driver.

This will settle it once and for all as I believe all tests done by the manufacturer are done on cars that have been tuned or modified.

[Ferrer]

i agree with that, but what i mean is if someone gave me the money and said "buy a street car" i'd find myself in a maserati gran turismo?

if i took a GTR to the track i'd end up spending money on it until it's no longer suitable for the street, if i used it on the street i'd find myself wanting something smaller/better looking/better sounding/enjoyable at lower speeds.

I see it this way, the GT-R (and the Veyron) is a car I'd want a week or two with me to test it. I would take it to twisty country roads, motorways, the lot. And then after this weeks have passed I'd happily return the keys to Nissan and drive away in a Corvette/MX-5/Z4M/Cooper S/...

As an engineer's wet dream it is indeed a great car, and it certainly deserves respect, but I don't see it being very enjoyable, exciting or involving. At least not as much as other simpler cars, even if they are certainly quite a lot slower.

that isnt valid to me

the Ring shows off real world performance better than any other track

which is why a good lap around it carries weight & bragging rights

Bragging rights hardly make your car better.

[James May]The Nurburgring makes everything worse...[/James May]

[TVR IS KING]

What I would like to see is the following:

1. Some millionare go to a Porsche dealership and buy either a 911 GT2 or Porsche Turbo S.
2. Then go to a Nissan dealership and buy a GTR.
3. Take both cars as purchased from the dealerships, DO NOT change anything and go and lap them on the same day, same time, same conditions (preferably on a dry track) and same driver.

This will settle it once and for all as I believe all tests done by the manufacturer are done on cars that have been tuned or modified.

This won't settle it once and for all. You'd need that person to be a racing driver with experience in both cars. Even if the Porsche is faster, the GT-R will probably be faster in the hands of a millionaire, due to the epic traction control, AWD and electronic safety nets. Without experience. you'd be more confident in the GTR, than the RR Porsche.

that isnt valid to me

the Ring shows off real world performance better than any other track

which is why a good lap around it carries weight & bragging rights

Have you ever bought a road car? You don't go and buy the hardest most pure track car you can. Some do, and they either have another car to drive every day, or they regret it 90% of the time. Cars that feel good on the road aren't the same as cars that feel good on the track, you rate them by different criteria.
Bragging rights sounds nice, but living with a car that has horrible road manners isn't worth it. People get over it and the bragging effect is lost anyway.

[Kitdy]

Corvette/MX-5/Z4M/Cooper S/...

Winner. Would maybe an E46 M3 be worth it as well? The Z4M is nice, just a tad ugly.

[Ferrer]

Winner. Would maybe an E46 M3 be worth it as well? The Z4M is nice, just a tad ugly.

Well, I haven't driven it, but I'm sure it is. The engine at least is one of the all-time greats.

[culver]

Well, It's is also used to describe if the engine is behind the front axel or on top. FR is having the engine on top of the axel (BMW's ex.) FMR is having the engine behind the front axel but in front of the cabin (Viper, SLR and SLS ex.)

I do not know if the GTR is a true FMR for this description.

It's a BS marketing term. The E36 BMW with an I4 was FMR, the same car with the I6 was a FR. The same was true of the Jeep Wrangler with I4 or I6 options. At the end of the day there isn't a significant difference between FMR or FR. It was just a marketing term. I'm not sure who was first to use it but I first recall it being applied to the Nissan 350Z and the Honda S2000. I guess the marketing guys were hoping that people would think that people would say "it's really a mid engine car and mid engine is better!" No, it doesn't mean any more than FR done well. It's a joke of term that engineers don't bother with.

[culver]

**facepalm**

well i specifically said that i was interested in somewhat more practical front engined vehicles and the some of the ones above the gt-r on that list are not even road legal outside of western europe.

of course anyone can strap a v10 and double wishbone suspension on a chassis with no body on it and rip it around the ring fast BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT I AM ASKING. I AM TALKING ABOUT REAL CARS THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THE MASS MARKET CAN IDENTIFY. How dare you insinuate i was unaware of the existence of these other vehicles. I designate FMR because most front engined cars that stand a chance up here have the engine behind the front axel.WHY NOT DESIGNATE FMR?!?! FMR IS A TYPE OF FRONT ENGINE RWD, so yes, i DID mean that. it is not a joke of a designation because it changes the vehicle dynamics significantly and it does not "sound like their front engine car has the cache...". WTF!? You don't know what you are talking about.

I honestly don't even know what the point of these two posts were. no wonder senior members have given up on these forums. new members are absolutely worthless.

Don't be an idiot. I've been around here longer than you have. It's not like I'm a first time poster. I've also shown I know a thing or two about engineering over the years. As I said before you got unhappy, FMR is a marketing term. When it comes to typical FR the engineers will push the engine back within the limits of the product specification. However, just because one car has an engine that protrudes 1" past the axle line while another does not DOESN'T mean the "FR" won't handle as well as the "FMR". FMR doesn't tell me anything about the fundamental layout of the chassis. MR does. So would what would we call a car that has a transverse engine behind the driver similar to the MR2 or Fiero? MR. So what if the engine and transmission are tucked in together like that of my V6 Mondeo/Contour? This would be one of the engine packages used buy Nobel. Does the car become a "rear engine" car just because the cylinder head is behind the axle line?

Sorry, you don't like the question. Deal with it... preferable in a mature manor.

[clutch-monkey]

Have you ever bought a road car?

wouldn't most people have

[henk4]

FMR IS A TYPE OF FRONT ENGINE RWD,

May I kindly advise you to have a look at for instance a Citroen DS or a Renault 4, which had the engine behind the front axle, and were still front wheel drive cars? They just turned the engine around....There were many FWD cars with their engine longitudinally placed behind the front axle. (And yes there were also FWD cars that had the engine located BEFORE the front axle. All that changed when the transversely located engine became the choice for most FWD cars.

So in stead of moaning about "stupidity" from other forum members, it might be worth while to take a closer look at automotive technology.

[csl177]

Longitudinal front engine, front wheel drive pre WW2: Cord, Citroen, BSA, Fageol, Miller, etc., etc.

Culver is right, FMR is just engineering layout shorthand picked up by the guys in marketing...

As to the argument Nissan's GTR is supreme at the 'Ring? Meh. I've driven more interesting and entertaining cars that are far slower on the clock. What's more important is how it performs in every day use, and I wouldn't include the GTR in any short list of must haves.

[culver]

the fact that the gt-r beat cars while COSTING LESS than others is absolutely amazing, but nobody seems to really give a flying ****. they do it too without the ruthless weight stripping that 911 GT3s do, nor the gas gazzling 6L+ SC pushrods that corvettes and vipers use, and you can get two or three GT-Rs for the price of a 599/FF. on top of that it is probably more reliable than all those cars because it is a nissan. it is also more weather friendly because of the awd.

One more thing, the GT-R isn't really returning better mileage than the ZR1. Your mileage comment wasn't actually based on any real testing or numbers.

[Ferrer]

One more thing, the GT-R isn't really returning better mileage than the ZR1. Your mileage comment wasn't actually based on any real testing or numbers.

None of this cars will be economical probably. Especially since driving them makes have a heavier right foot than usual...