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Thread: How are things in Europe, really?

  1. #31
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    I'm no fan of QE, but it does at least have some positive spin on it.

    The US is showing meager growth indeed. But it's not really the focus of this thread.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    But it's not really the focus of this thread.
    Switzerland and Austria aren't whores to world prices of goods; nor are they major market players in terms of trade... unless you work for an oil trading house in Zug. Good balance sheets, wealth and educated citizens who don't extend massive lines of credit and a crooked banking system (in the case of Switzerland). Pretty much, they rely on themselves and don't focus on mass growth. Thus, they weather the storm fairly well off than others.

  3. #33
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    I am proud to be half Austrian.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
    Switzerland and Austria aren't whores to world prices of goods; nor are they major market players in terms of trade... unless you work for an oil trading house in Zug. Good balance sheets, wealth and educated citizens who don't extend massive lines of credit and a crooked banking system (in the case of Switzerland). Pretty much, they rely on themselves and don't focus on mass growth. Thus, they weather the storm fairly well off than others.
    That's everything we didn't do.

    Guess that explains the state of our economy.

    Probably.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  5. #35
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    Or something.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post
    Here's what I don't get...why not just cut the state support amount instead of punishing people for having an extra bedroom? Talk about government getting into your personal business, that would drive me crazy.
    ah no, it's "state support" for people to prevent them from having ot be homeless.
    If the property they are in has an "extra bedroom" then the support is reduced. So an extra bedroom means less food for the kids or less heat -- you seen the weather just now ?

    The lack of end-to-end thinking in our lot just now is terrible. In my region there are NO homes with single bedrooms. For the last 20+ years builders have squeezed in boxrooms and call them bedrooms. So they get taxed.

    What option does a council/charity or individual have if they ARE sitting with a spare bedroom ? Nothing. So in reality this is a direct tax on many of the poor.

    So if you suffer an illness and to be less of a "burden" you have a family member provide your care but for 1 or 2 nights it is safer/better to have a professional carer attend. You cant' have a spare room for them to sleep in. OR if you are divorced and would like the kids to stay over a night or 2 , you can't have that spare bedroom and tories have gone to press saying they can sleep on the sofa !! Girls and boys , any age.

    For the first time I would seriously consider leaving this country.
    BUT, thankfully wont have to as Scotland will vote Yes to full independence ( and they are bound to as we find it abhorrent the treatment this tory government is handing out to the most vulnerable )

    Wont be all sweetness and light but Scottish values that built the world over 500 years will prevail ( see how many Scots influenced and directly created the US constitution and amendments )
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    I'll admit, at least Europe is still a step ahead of us with regards to social spending. We spend like some European countries, and offer very little for it in terms of actual services. The rest goes to waste, apparently.
    I think your first para maybe doesn't comprehend the variety in Europe.
    Some European countries spend excessively and do not tax to meet that spend. THEY get the headliens ( certainly they used to from d'heads on FOX ) as what European socialism was like

    I have to defend France. Reviled by right wing press in the US they have had a dynamic engineering and development industry for a century. So successful they have afforded in the past the most regressive for of tax to each person in the funding of the Common Agricultural Policy. Which was adopted into other European states in the first trenche of community.
    France historically did well , first their education for even the most lowly civil servant was exceptional and secondly there were no "career politicians". They were engineers , scientists, manufacturers who took on board the social-good and went to be political leaders. Sadly that has turned the corner, but still many good exist. ( The UK on the other hand is full of non-practial, inexperienced, lying professional politicians. eg Ian Duncan Smith is a major force in the government and yet it was PROVEN he lied about his education, his experience and his qualifications. ANYONE else would be fired. He is "Protected" )
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  8. #38
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    Probably, I don't understand the complete variety. After all, I don't live there. The impression I get is that there is a lot less money evaporated through bureaucracy, mismanagement, and redundancy in agencies. Countries not raising revenues to match their spending is certainly not unlike the US.

    The Economist is certainly no defender of France. Given the lacklustre coverage of anything outside of the US by US sources, that's about all I have to go on. Basically they slammed the labour system primarily, as well as a pugnacious attitude by the government at large on allowing companies to size themselves to the market. Those have resulted, they say, in a lack of both competitiveness and innovation since Charles DeGaulle and especially since Mitterrand, rest his soul, who according to them was a better innovator on public policy than any of his successors.
    Last edited by jcp123; 03-24-2013 at 06:51 PM.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    For the first time I would seriously consider leaving this country.
    BUT, thankfully wont have to as Scotland will vote Yes to full independence ( and they are bound to as we find it abhorrent the treatment this tory government is handing out to the most vulnerable )
    I don't think y'all will. 30-40% yes on separation. Sadly. Fly the Saltire bud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Wont be all sweetness and light but Scottish values that built the world over 500 years will prevail ( see how many Scots influenced and directly created the US constitution and amendments )
    That's a good thing!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    I have to defend France. Reviled by right wing press in the US they have had a dynamic engineering and development industry for a century. So successful they have afforded in the past the most regressive for of tax to each person in the funding of the Common Agricultural Policy. Which was adopted into other European states in the first trenche of community.
    France historically did well , first their education for even the most lowly civil servant was exceptional and secondly there were no "career politicians". They were engineers , scientists, manufacturers who took on board the social-good and went to be political leaders.
    100% Bias due to Bonnie Prince Charlie and Matra and Alpine!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
    (i.e. Military spending)
    Social Security, Medicare.
    A woman goes to the doctor to figure out why she is having breathing problems...The doctor tells her she is overweight. She says she wants a second opinion...the doctor says, "your ugly".

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post
    Social Security, Medicare.
    Social Security: you earned it.

    Medicare/Medicaid: altruism.

    Military Spending: we don't like you so die.

    (sarcasm)

  12. #42
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    LT I think that's a big difference in US versus some other nations.

    There seems a strong biew in the US that medical care must be paid for by those who use it and no/limited space for minimal service.

    Many others view that medical care is the most important part of "social care/security" and when we consider the net benefit of better treatment and avoidance EARLY over serious medical intervention later it's not just "altruistic".

    With the likes of Unum Insurance at the heart of the machine it does seem odd that it still retains such a strength unless it has become the unstormable fortress profession

    At which point do most see emergency medical need ? Same cover for all or the decision at pick up to whether someone will "pay" for the emergency cover and subsequent needs and thus to where they will be delivered and who will see them ?

    The NHS *USED TO BE* about making the best available to all. Sadly this gov view is "private can do best" and we seem hell bent to destroy 65 years of success on the hope of copying the US system with none of its failings. Changes since Thatcher have come to roost as recent senior managers in hospitals are caught covering up and manipulating data to show compliance to service standards. AND one of those has now been put in place to manage the "new" health service. You wouldn't believe this if you were reading it in a 50c fiction store
    ( Another banner carried by many when the commons will be stormed )
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  13. #43
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    I can't really make up my mind about universal health care. There are some persuasive arguments out there, not the least of which is that removing the burden from employers would simplify business immensely.

    However, I am tempered by my cousin's experience in Austria where long waits for treatment and additional surgeries after a bad auto accident left him with some permanent injuries.

    Another major hurdle unique to the US is the amount of GDP that health care spending represents here in the US; at triple what is spent in other rich-world countries, it's a different beast entirely to put medicine under the auspices of the Federal Government. Major drug companies even admit they charge more here in the land of deep pockets so they can recoup R+D costs more quickly and offer drugs more affordably in poorer areas.

    Neither of these are insurmountable, but frankly I am not sure how we would go about it without being so heavy-handed that the law of unintended consequences bears its full weight.
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
    However, I am tempered by my cousin's experience in Austria where long waits for treatment and additional surgeries after a bad auto accident left him with some permanent injuries.
    Despite the public universal healthcare system you can still have private medical coverage if you want, and most people do except for those at the lower end of the income ladder.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  15. #45
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    Hm...yeah, I'd put them at the lower end of the ladder...
    An it harm none, do as ye will

    Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.

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