How are things in Europe, really?

[jcp123]

Wow...this all really has led to a sad state of affaires, huh?

[LTSmash]

Wow...this all really has led to a sad state of affaires, huh?

Pretty much. Like I said in the other post, if BRICs and Europe can get their stuff figured out, not screw up rates, and industrial production rises we should start seeing a more robust recovery worldwide. But until then...

[Matra et Alpine]

Most of Europe isn't making stupid moves like the Brits !
Even the governments own office had to point out the chancellor that he was quoting their figures wrongly and the evidence WAS there that the decisions were slowing down the economy.
Right wing theories on "work makes you free" and that money institutions will always do the right things and no tethers required and poor health and education will make things "better" There's a good chance this will lead to a desertion of the conservative party and as many of them are entrenched in right wing thinking will go to UKIP who are as far right as you can get without changing your name to Goebels

[jcp123]

What are your thoughts on the British Eurosceptics?

[Matra et Alpine]

Sadly al the ones getting the press are the extreme right UKIP whose view on immigration is slightly scary !
Sceptic is the best attitude regarding any political issue and then determine how things work best. BUT just to be complaining and not actually have a workable solution is just stupid. Some think that our "special relationship" with the USA is a future saviour - stuck in the 20th C thinking. Others want all "British things" to be kept for Britain but don't really want to give up the things Europe brings. Little Britain thinkers who don't grasp basic economics Think that there is something "special" about the £ and something "evil" about the Euro That in some way Europe owes us a favour !!

However, equally there are aspects of Europe that are moving too fast for all nations.
For others it's obvious ... so Scotland generally is more than happy to agree to positives like Court of Human Rights, but not many down south in current government. I view it as simple, you either believe you are doing right and are happy to be judged externally or you know you are doing wrong and hide from truth [ case in recent point .. Al Megrahi !! OUR compassionate legal system allowed us the capacity to release him to his homeland for the finaly years of his life. Others who only sought "revenge" and headlines didn't comprehend that Scottish law gave him that right. We defended it even tho' many friends complained bitterly and demanded redress. Kind of like when a Brit complains about death penalty in the US for murder. US law allows it and so we accept it happens - or some of us do ]

NO system is perfect. Just some are more perfect than others. Isolation never works. China realised this 20 years ago. I suggest the US is awakening to it but rather slowly.
Working together on agreed fundamentals is the way forward.

So no matter how different we find Euro relationships, we are better if we find ways to work with it. Some "Eurosceptics" operate to that tenet, others just want to be "pure British" and others sway with the way that will get them votes - eg current Tory and Lib-Dem agreements

[LTSmash]

Right wing theories on "work makes you free" and that money institutions will always do the right things

Sadly, there was a day when I once held those beliefs too. Then I opened my eyes...

[Matra et Alpine]

The latest WTF in our budget yesterday was the government lauding that they are providing £130Bn funds for mortgages to help hosue buyers as "the mortgage market is not working".

erm, just a few years back you bailed out the banks with hundreds of billions and TOLD them they had to provide business loans and house mortgages. If the "market is not working" then force the banks .. NOT reduce spending across all government departments to fund MORE help for the financial industry ( esp while they fight against Europe ( inc Swiss ) push to limit salary and bonus for bank industry )

[roosterjuicer]

OH yes, rooster, the latest "great saviour" for the British nation is to penalise anyone who is receiving state support if they have a bedroom in their house that is not being "used".

Here's what I don't get...why not just cut the state support amount instead of punishing people for having an extra bedroom? Talk about government getting into your personal business, that would drive me crazy.

[jcp123]

Once Europe figures out they need to drive their economy forward in order to afford all of the safety nets, etc., then they'll be in perfectly good shape, I think. For now it's a very rude wake-up call that if they are to have expansive governmental programs, it still needs to go hand-in-hand with efficiency and flexibility in those programs. IMHO the EU's remedy of forcing austerity on afflicted countries only addresses half of what's needed, but the EU lacks any kind of plan to push growth forward, which ultimately will be what's needed to pull the area out of its funk.

I'll admit, at least Europe is still a step ahead of us with regards to social spending. We spend like some European countries, and offer very little for it in terms of actual services. The rest goes to waste, apparently.

[LTSmash]

We spend like some European countries, and offer very little for it in terms of actual services. The rest goes to waste, apparently.

(i.e. Military spending)

[crisis]

Australia has for the best part avoided the world wide economic meltdown. We are shedding jobs which is concerning but we managed to avoid a recession. Our current unemployment rate is 5.4%..
Oddly the incumbent left wing government is absolutely putrid to the nose of most Australians. I believe this is mostly due to ignorance and a well played smear campaign by the opposition. The current government came into power with a surplus from the previous conservatives. When the US and Europe went into melt down the government spent a large proportion in the hope of stimulating the economy. It worked for the best part but put us into a deficit which the conservatives screamed about. The government made a stupid commitment to return it to surplus by next year. Due to the world economy this will not happen and the mindless masses have been led to believe this is a massive failure. Even though many economists see it as nothing of the kind. The worst that can be said for the current government is that they are too populist. We are heading for an election where the right wing conservatives will be handed government on a silver platter. I expect things to get a whole lot harder from then on. I am in the minority.

[Kitdy]

Canada and Australia are running deep. We have mad resources (#1 and #2 in Uranium is good) to fuel China's growth, and I don't know about your banks, but ours are buttoned down.

[jcp123]

(i.e. Military spending)

To some extent, yes. The JSF is one "legitimate" example, then of course there are the scams and supposedly honest mistakes which push costs for everyday items to many times what they should cost. Plus too many duplicate/redundant agencies with bloated payrolls and pork spending (actually a smaller problem than they would have you believe). Quantitative easing is beyond the point of diminishing short-term returns, but pushing interest rates lower is at least helping service the debt in the long term.

By and large, Europe, though its safety nets are expansive and costly, are at least more efficiently managed than here. And the Europeans are just as happy we spend as much as we do on military, so they don't have to.

[jcp123]

Let me ask this: what is it that states such as Switzerland and Austria did right to still show low unemployment and also post some growth? Meager growth, to be sure, but that's enviable right now.

[LTSmash]

Quantitative easing is beyond the point of diminishing short-term returns, but pushing interest rates lower is at least helping service the debt in the long term.

QE isn't necessarily working to the fullest. People are still flocking to bonds at near 0% and not jumping into equities. When will investors get it into their heads that if they want to see progression they have to adjust their investments into REAL growth? This bond repurchase program doesn't just magically fix everything.

Let me ask this: what is it that states such as Switzerland and Austria did right to still show low unemployment and also post some growth? Meager growth, to be sure, but that's enviable right now.

It could be argued that the US is showing meager growth too... Perhaps 7-8% is the new natural rate of unemployment now. (sarcasm)