The Downfall of Honda (In America)

[NSXType-R]

Honda is on the cusp of launching a new Civic Type R, which they're developing to be the fastest FWD car to lap the Nurburgring.

As any of you may know, I may be the biggest fan of Honda on this forum.

But at this point, Honda absolutely is not interested in bringing that car over, or anything else that interests me other than SUVs and CUVs. The only real bright spots honestly are the Accord sedan, coupe, Fit... and the TSX. The Element is going away, I don't care for the CR-V or Pilot and the beak grilled TL, RLX and ILX can go away for all I care.

I'm at the point of exasperation with the company and I feel like saying, "Who cares? We won't get it anyway."

sigh...

[RacingManiac]

We are getting NSX....and I think that will be quite an interesting car that might be quite good...

Albeit it won't be anywhere near affordable...

Civic SI, K24 and all, is still pretty nice IMO. I still won't rule one out in the future, especially considering the engine might be less of a headache in terms of complexity compare to a modern turbo direct injection 4 like my car...probably slower though...

For all the bashing Honda gets, they still sell a car that has 6MT, standard front LSD, and 200bhp that handles well. And for not a lot of money at all. Its still a pretty "old school" car without the electronic based handling enhancement...

And honest doesn't look that bad to me in Sedan form...

[jcp123]

Only gripe I have heard for the K24-powered Civic is that it steering is rather vague.

[RacingManiac]

Shit tires will do that....

[Jacob Potts]

This has been an interesting thread. The posters have covered many of the aspects of Honda's "decline".

One massive factor that every poster has missed has been the effects of government bureaucracy on Honda.

In the U.S., ecological and safety mavens approach the subject of humans driving automobiles with dread. To the mavens, humans (that's us) are stupid for even driving a car at all. When we do drive, they think we are ignorant, slothful, "unsafe at any speed", to coin a phrase. The self-appointed government experts' end-game is to end all humans driving all vehicles, period, full stop.

In response to such governmental interference, Honda has historically adopted a stance of compliance. Honda's compliance has often lead to interesting technical innovation. For example, when the first wave of U.S. smog laws hit, Honda came up with the CVCC head, which met the requirements without the horrific thermal reactors and all the other mess.

When "sports cars" were frown upon, Honda abandoned the CRX and introduced the del Sol. The del Sol could do what the CRX did, but did not feel like it was a sports car. In this thread we call it "losing its soul," but Honda very likely would call it responding to "market conditions". Of course, "market conditions" is a euphemism for governmental interference, not responding to what we, the customers, wanted.

The U.S. government wants us Americans to drive gray flannel sedans, nameless, soul-less transpo-modules. As has been its wont for decades, Honda has quietly complied. Honda still earns "10 Best" nominations from the automotive press, but it is only the best of what the ever-restrictive hand of government allows.

All of you in South America, Europe, Asia and Australia have different forms of government, springing from your own histories and cultures. You can best comment on how your governments have killed Honda.

[Kitdy]

... Why then do quarter tons consistently top sales in the US if the government wants to cut emissions etc? Why are cars more powerful, faster, and safer now than they have ever been? Why is the US near the very top of large countries with cars per person? Why is the US one of the most polluting per capita, and possessing on average the most powerful cars of all large, populous, developed economy countries?

[Ferrer]

It seems Honda is rising up again.

We are getting this (in 2036 probably):



And the Japanese are preparing a production version of that (even if it'll probably be front wheel drive...):

[NSXType-R]

Jacob Potts- as unhappy as I am with Honda, I don't think they're being targeted unfairly by the US government's regulations. Their regulations are across the board and seem to affect every car manufacturer equally.

I think it's more likely that the bean counters got ahold of the company and decided to put forward the ZDX and the Crosstour. Honda has plenty of very innovative JDM products that Honda Motors of America don't think are relevant here.

Like you said- even in the constraints of emissions, Honda was a very innovative company. Where that innovation is now... I have no idea. I remain optimistic, but I am not holding my breath.

By the way, RacingManiac- I do agree there are some bright spots in Honda's lineup- the Civic Si for instance. But there really isn't much more that I'm interested in anymore.

[Ferrer]

By the way, in several European countries, Honda ceased the commercialisation of the Insight and the CR-Z, amongst them, Spain.

Apparently, they are planning on making this an Europe-wide plan.

[RacingManiac]

By the way, RacingManiac- I do agree there are some bright spots in Honda's lineup- the Civic Si for instance. But there really isn't much more that I'm interested in anymore.

Thats the same with any mainstream company though....Do I care about any Toyota aside from Toyobaru? or any VW outisde of the fast(ish) Golf?

BTW why would S660 be FWD? The car its emulating is a MR Kei-car....

[Ferrer]

BTW why would S660 be FWD? The car its emulating is a MR Kei-car....

I know, but surely they'll find a way to justify the front wheel drive for cost reasons.

[NSXType-R]

By the way, in several European countries, Honda ceased the commercialisation of the Insight and the CR-Z, amongst them, Spain.

Apparently, they are planning on making this an Europe-wide plan.

That's not very surprising. Was the CR-Z the USDM version where there were no back seats?

At least you guys get the Civic hatchback which is really cool looking.

The Insight isn't all that great. I like the hatchback, but I hate the drivetrain.

Thats the same with any mainstream company though....Do I care about any Toyota aside from Toyobaru? or any VW outisde of the fast(ish) Golf?

BTW why would S660 be FWD? The car its emulating is a MR Kei-car....

That's true, although as a whole I think Lexus and Infiniti has more interesting luxury cars than Acura does.

Nah, I don't think the S660 would be FWD. Small Kei sports cars have always been around. The Daihatsu Copen and Mazda Cappuccino are good examples.

[Ferrer]

That's not very surprising. Was the CR-Z the USDM version where there were no back seats?

At least you guys get the Civic hatchback which is really cool looking.

The Insight isn't all that great. I like the hatchback, but I hate the drivetrain.

Nope, the four seater model. And it was only available with the manual gearbox. List price, it was quite expensive, but you could get very good offers.

By the way, the Daihatsu Copen was front wheel drive.

[RacingManiac]

s and Infiniti has more interesting luxury cars than Acura does.

Nah, I don't think the S660 would be FWD. Small Kei sports cars have always been around. The Daihatsu Copen and Suzuki Cappuccino are good examples.

FIFY...

Also Mazda's is Autozam AZ-1...

[pimento]

Also the Copen is FWD.