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Thread: Is it true that a racing harness without HANSdevice is more dangerous than seatbelts?

  1. #1
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    Is it true that a racing harness without HANSdevice is more dangerous than seatbelts?

    I've hear from guys at the local racetrack that using tight fitting racing harnesses without a HANS device or a donut shaped foam neck support is actually more dangerous than regular seatbelts.
    Is it true?

    They argue neck snapping will kill you instantly or leave you disabled in a wheelchair for life.
    In contrast to face injuries which will heal.

    Reportedly this is why so many sport and supercar manufacturers refuse to offer racing harnesses in their models.


    Speaking of safety,

    Does anyone know of helmetless neck support or HANS devices being proposed?

    Maybe with an inflatable head strap like those on Ford Exporer inflatable seatbelts.
    Maybe the head strap can double as a glass holder, hands-free holder, head massager, brain-wave electrodes or something else to both encourage use and make it more confortable.
    For neck support maybe it can also be a shoulder and neck massager or scarf in cold climates. Maybe even a cooling scarf for hot climates.

    Tenths if not hundreds of thousands die each year in car accidents so it's just not ethical to ignore safety.

  2. #2
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    In my own car I have a bucket seat (Sparco Evo) with Schroth harnesses built in. To be honest I feel it is much more safe. First of all a standard seat is usually surprisingly weak and the headrest is too often far from the back of your head.
    I have very strong brakes fitted and in a emergency stop situation I have a lot more support on the shoulders and less tendency to go 'submarining'.

    See this video to see the difference:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS6wof_d1_8"]Standard 3-point safety belt vs. Schroth asm Rallye-3 - YouTube[/ame]

    And it definately aids in active safety. You dont slide/move around as much on the seat so it gives you better control of the vehicle.
    Last edited by drakkie; 05-26-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Too much rumour passes around as fact having been first mentioned in discussions

    HANS can only work with full harness.
    Full harness can only work with proper seat, proper belts done up properly.
    Proper seat are unusable for daily drive.
    Proper harnesses are too restrictive to be safe in daily use - you ever tried a should check or reversing ? ( Just feel how much you twist your shoulder when you do these moves when driving off, reversing or turning at T junctions or road checking at crossways )
    So, what is it being "safer" than ?

    Race cars remove airbags ( for obvious reasons ).
    Airbags are effective at restricting head movement and injury.
    Standard seatbelts do well at slowing and then stopping the initial movement in a head on.
    So as good as a badly adjusted HANS

    The spread of HANS is I believe a sales-drive rather than a safety.
    The newer tethers have addressed some of the primary safety by allowing less restrictive head movement ( ie stop getting IN to an accident situation ) at the cost of slightly lowering the protection IN an accident.

    Personally I am more comfortable having better control to detect and avoid an incident than the smaller advantage of the restraint IN an accident. BUT if I was in single make saloon racing then I'd be wearing one for sure !!

    HANS is a poor solution but being the only one at the time got the might of FIA behind it and money now talks. We NEED a dynamic system similar to that used in air-bags and now developed for motorbike riders and this last few years jockey and cross country horse event riders.

    With HANS being where it is tho' I despair of the system that is effectively slowing down the development and deployment of something which could be infinitely better and MUCH more adjustable to individual drivers.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Too much rumour passes around as fact having been first mentioned in discussions

    HANS can only work with full harness.
    Full harness can only work with proper seat, proper belts done up properly.
    Proper seat are unusable for daily drive.
    Proper harnesses are too restrictive to be safe in daily use - you ever tried a should check or reversing ? ( Just feel how much you twist your shoulder when you do these moves when driving off, reversing or turning at T junctions or road checking at crossways )
    So, what is it being "safer" than ?
    I'm using a Sparco Evo welded to the floorpan without sliders for atleast a year now. Once your in it it's practical enough for me. I use a Schroth autocontrol 3-point for daily use and for track use a Schroth 3-point fixed harness. It's a fifteen minute job to replace as it use the same attachment points.
    I put a button on my dashboard to unlock the tensioner, but NOT override the crash sensor under the seat. The airbag is powered off also.
    To cut a long story short, I can still really easily reach forward if need be. Reversing I just do completely on mirrors. There are always solutions

  5. #5
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    yes, drakkie, but just look at what you've done to get there
    Not the kind of choices you make when going to the shops is it !
    not sure if you are wearing HANS too ?
    The shoulder structure and the hans straps can restrict rotation thus my issue of safety on a road

    Re your seats, in UK now, if the car originally had sliding seats then it will FAIL it's annual MOT test if the seats don't slide ! So we have to be careful what we do with road/competition class cars bummer. made worse the road seats of the rx like many cars cant take shoulder harnesses safely.

    HANS with 3 point were often said not to work in the early days and let the hans frame move. Was that resolved ?
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    yes, drakkie, but just look at what you've done to get there
    Not the kind of choices you make when going to the shops is it !
    not sure if you are wearing HANS too ?
    The shoulder structure and the hans straps can restrict rotation thus my issue of safety on a road

    Re your seats, in UK now, if the car originally had sliding seats then it will FAIL it's annual MOT test if the seats don't slide ! So we have to be careful what we do with road/competition class cars bummer. made worse the road seats of the rx like many cars cant take shoulder harnesses safely.

    HANS with 3 point were often said not to work in the early days and let the hans frame move. Was that resolved ?
    Matra,

    At the moment I'm not using Hans as it's not mandatory plus I don't go racing that often. Perhaps 5-6 track days + 1-2 weekends of nurburgring a year. One day I will get it though. The Hans would restrict you though. And it would be a bit odd looking when you go to the shop

    In the Netherlands they don't have these rules. Basically the only rule your car seat needs to comply with is that the seat is properly fixed to car. It is possible though to get the bucket seat to slide. If your interested I have a perfectly good set of FIA approved sliders in my barn. I can make you a good price for them

    Universal sets slides: Biesheuvel Autosport

    If that doesnt work, why not take the seats out and the original ones back? When you bolt them to the floor it can not be too much work, right?

  7. #7
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    While I'm leading championship I'm not too bothered.
    BUT if I start finding I'm falling behind then yes drakkie, I'll be swapping the heavy drivers seat full of electric motors and airbags for a lightweight c/f on sliders
    But then I'll not be using it for the road very often.
    Trade off
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  8. #8
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    I drive my Cobra 2 or more times per week in normal street conditions. I have a single drivers side roll bar with a 5 point safety harness ( crotch strap only used on track ). I have a 4 point harness for the passengers side. The standard, adjustable, bucket seats from Shelby do not incorporate a headrest, since they did not exist on a 1965 Cobra. The harnesses are attached to the roll bar or structure per the harness specifications. When I was 26 years old I took out a 1958 TR-3 steering wheel with my face. I vowed that would never happen again. I believe there is risk to neck injury in an accident, but there is a trade off. The harness is, as mentioned, restrictive in your movements. I do not track with a Hans and not many do. I rebuilt a 1964 Valiant Convertible several years ago for my daughter and installed a 4 point harness..........That is my 2 cents.........Cheers

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