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Thread: Fiat 500 2020-

  1. #1
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    Fiat 500 2020-

    Fiat 500 2020-

    04 Mar 2020

    The new Fiat 500

    On July 4, 1957, in Turin, Fiat presented the Nuova Fiat 500, a real icon of our times, with which Fiat concluded a revival that had begun straight after the Second World War.
    On July 4, 2007, exactly 50 years later, again in Turin, Fiat will present the new Fiat 500 which will be marketed immediately after the launch. And the new car will conclude an equally.
    On March 4, 2020 exactly ........? The new 500
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    THE NEW FIAT 500: ALL-NEW, ALL-ELECTRIC, ALL CINQUECENTO


    • World premiere of the New Fiat 500, the first fully electric car from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA)
    • The third generation of the Fiat 500 is completely new, offering more space and high levels of technology through a clean and re-imagined ‘Cinquecento’ design
    • Range of up to 199 miles in the WLTP cycle, with 85kW fast charge capability as standard
    • The first city car with level 2 autonomous driving equipped with the revolutionary new UConnect 5 infotainment system
    • Fiat 500 returns to Turin – New 500 will be produced at Mirafiori plant
    • The first fully-electric four-seater convertible to go on sale
    • Pre-booking for New 500 Convertible ‘La Prima’ begins in the UK today – the high specification launch edition is priced at £29,000 on-the-road (OTR), inclusive of the Plug-in Car Grant (PiCG)
    • Three one-offs to be auctioned for charity: the 500 Giorgio Armani, the B.500 ‘Mai Troppo’ (Never Too Much) by Bvlgari and the 500 Kartell


    The New Fiat 500, the first fully electric car from FCA, makes its debut today. The new generation of the iconic city car has a range of up to 199 miles (WLTP) and receives 85kW fast charging as standard. Production of the New 500 returns to its birthplace of Turin, Italy where the first model was first created 63 years ago. Unveiled in top specification guise – ‘La Prima’ – pre-orders begin today, priced at £29,000 OTR (including PiCG).

    The New 500 takes inspiration from the generations before it. The first generation of 500 offered freedom and mobility, establishing itself as an icon. Revived in 2007, the second generation introduced style and charm to the iconic city car that went on to conquer the world. The third generation is more sustainable, connected and autonomous, adhering to increasingly stringent regulations and using its popularity to inspire change.
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  3. #3
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    What they are not telling you is that it is supposed to cost 35 grand...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  4. #4
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    It does make sense for it to be a purpose-built EV, but that price is exorbitant.

    Do you folks in the Eurozone get government rebates from buying EVs?
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  5. #5
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    Depends on the country, here there weren't any... until the pandemic came along. Now there are some if you replace your old ICE car with something more eco-friendly. The more electric it is the more money you get; I think the maximum sits at €5k or so for the moment (that is including your old car).

    In any case, since EVs have motor with a single moving part and single speed gearboxes, shouldn't they be actually cheaper to engineer and make? Unless all the cost is taken over by the batteries (I know they are usually the most expensive single part on EVs).
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  6. #6
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    Yep, some people, like Tesla, are getting a bit more clever with their motors, but by and large it's all those damned laptop batteries shoved under the floor. Unfortunately, the more clever they get, the more exotic materials they use, and the worse the mining is for the environment. Kitdy is probably happy because Canada is chock full of all of those rare earth metals; hence Canadian miners making $100,000 a year for six-months' work.

    I guess I'm not too familiar with car prices and purchasing power in Spain, but here the Feds give up to $7,500 and Connecticut will throw in another (up to) $5,000. If you are lucky and max those both out, it brings the price of one of these to within about $1,000 of a gasoline version ($17,000 MSRP). Back home in California, the state rebate is $7,000 which would make things more favorable still. These are all estimated numbers, but you can see the incentives can definitely make a difference. Hell, the highest-spec Nissan Leaf is over $40,000; I can't imagine anyone buying that without a nudge from the government.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  7. #7
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    You see, this is the price list for the Peugeot 208 in Europe:
    Peugeot 208 Range.JPG
    The problem is that the cheapest EV version is 7 grand more than the more expensive ICE version. And costs twice as much as the mid range model (Active PureTech 100), which will probably be the most popular model in the range.

    Even with government help we are still far from having affordable EVs in Europe that people actually buy in any meaningful volumes.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  8. #8
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    Yeah, we're certainly not at the point where having an EV as your only car is practical, but for those with multiple cars (perhaps a uniquely-American problem says the man with three cars and two motorcycles who bikes to work...), I think the numbers can definitely make sense with the gov't "cash on the hood". Obviously, this multiple-car arrangement makes it something of a rich person's game, but it still does make sense if you were going to have that many cars anyway.

    Given the weather in Spain, if you want to save money on gas, registration, and maintenance a bike or a scooter still makes sense as a money saver. Hell even for me with my 70mpg (3.4l/100km) Kamm-backed, magnesium-blocked, and manual-transmissioned hybrid in the land of cheap gas and the open road, the bicycle(s) are still the money saver by several furlongs.

    ... aside from the idiots in Subarus who keep crashing into me and my incredibly-shitty medical benefits through work.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  9. #9
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    You are right in the number of wheels, but wrong on the type of vehicle. A 125cc scooter will give you all the benefits with none of drawbacks. You can have them as EVs too if you want; I used to work for a company whose occupation was renting them.

    Also, as you know, Barcelona is on a slope, so bicycles can be a no go in certain situations.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  10. #10
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    Fair enough, that would require a lot of commitment that most casual bike commuters aren't interested in. I had fun biking in Mexico City when I was there, but the 7,500ft (2,200m) elevation and the pollution dampened my enthusiasm somewhat; wheezing after a long ride, I blew my nose and what came out was black... I'd imagine doing that everyday would be wearying.

    I was in San Francisco last year (on a proper bike with an engine...) and the electrically-assisted bicycles were everywhere, which strikes me as a good solution to hilly city riding. The only downside being that they're as expensive as a cheap scooter. Six-figure salaries roll in with the fog every morning there, though, so the purchase price would be less of a concern.

    Has Euro 4 (5?) finally killed the two-stroke over there? Good riddance, I say, if it has.
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    Fair enough, that would require a lot of commitment that most casual bike commuters aren't interested in. I had fun biking in Mexico City when I was there, but the 7,500ft (2,200m) elevation and the pollution dampened my enthusiasm somewhat; wheezing after a long ride, I blew my nose and what came out was black... I'd imagine doing that everyday would be wearying.000
    Deadly would be a more appropriate word, I guess. However, indeed electrically-assisted bicycles are a possible solution. Here are they are offered by a municipality-backed system and they are fairly popular; less so as privately owned vehicles.

    However these are thriving. I hate them with a deep, red-blooded passion.

    We are already at Euro 6, and yes two-strokes are gone and I believe carburettors too (except for the most basic of the basic models).
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  12. #12
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    There was a great photo circulating a week or so ago of a bunch of those stupid scooters alight and being used as a barricade by French protesters. The French are good at that sort of thing...
    The hubris that is required to view public spaces as a suitable dumping ground for some stupid company's stupid scooters gets me going as well, but that is perhaps another rant for another time. Well-contained city bikes are a much better option.

    For a cheap scooter without a catalyst, a carb isn't going to be too too much worse than the comparable bargain-bin EFI. I can't imagine them being tolerated anywhere else, though.

    In which Euro# do diesels get the kibosh? And how soon will gasoline follow them?
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    Last edited by f6fhellcat13; 06-23-2020 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Added picture
    "Kimi, can you improve on your [race] finish?"
    "No. My Finnish is fine; I am from Finland. Do you have any water?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    I was in San Francisco last year (on a proper bike with an engine...) and the electrically-assisted bicycles were everywhere, which strikes me as a good solution to hilly city riding. The only downside being that they're as expensive as a cheap scooter. Six-figure salaries roll in with the fog every morning there, though, so the purchase price would be less of a concern.
    I was biking the other day, and I saw a pretty old school bike with a woman in flip flops pedaling leisurely. She blew by me. I was perplexed for a moment until I saw the frame was a bit thicker and more rectangular than usual.

    The e-bikes seem more common. TO has made a half-hearted effort to make biking a thing in the core, so I suppose they've become more in vogue. Until you mentioned hilly city driving, I would consider them a kinda poor bridge between scooter and "real" bike, but that use case is ideal.

    Some guy has a single cylinder gas-bike-thing somewhat nearby as I hear him buzzing around every few weeks.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    There was a great photo circulating a week or so ago of a bunch of those stupid scooters alight and being used as a barricade by French protesters. The French are good at that sort of thing...
    The hubris that is required to view public spaces as a suitable dumping ground for some stupid company's stupid scooters gets me going as well, but that is perhaps another rant for another time. Well-contained city bikes are a much better option.
    Ah, our northern neighbours... everybody hates them, but they know how to do proper protests. You should see the gillets jaunes they are properly belligerent.

    My main point of complaint with these devilish instruments isn't ride sharing fleets, but rather private users which carry them in trains or subways. The take up space and are annoying for other public transport users. I was the mayor I would enact a municipal ordinance which would prohibit using more than one means of transport at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    For a cheap scooter without a catalyst, a carb isn't going to be too too much worse than the comparable bargain-bin EFI. I can't imagine them being tolerated anywhere else, though.
    Oh EDM mopeds do have catalysts, at least since 2010, AFAIK.
    Quote Originally Posted by f6fhellcat13 View Post
    In which Euro# do diesels get the kibosh? And how soon will gasoline follow them?
    Ironically, current diesels (that ones in which you essentially put peepee in the exhaust) are actually cleaner than equivalent petrol engines...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

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