Bush's "ARMY of ONE"

[Egg Nog]

Crimefighter: This is copied over from another thread (that just died), and I feel that it would be pretty relevent here....

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Do you realize that the U.S. has had a part in or by herself liberated more people than any other country in the world?

Of course they have, according to them. The US, dozens of times, has helped leaders get overthrown in favour of their own national interests. It's been happening since the late forties, with some example countires like Laos, Honduras, Haiti, Liberia, Chad, Grenada, Fiji, Cambodia, Venezuela, and many others. Many supported coups have been in favour of governments that will allow easier US access to resources and labour.

Do you realize that the U.S. gives far more in aid to other countries than any other country in the world?

Do you realize that the economic pressure that the US has put on the world's underdeveloped countries is one of the major reasons why they've gotten stuck in their situations in the first place? The aid provided by the US does not come anywhere near close to offsetting the economic stress and dependence that they've influenced. And besides, it would only be expected that the US provides more aid than any other country. The US has the world's largest economy, by a longshot.

Here's a quote from a site looking at the United Nations agreements for rich countires to provide international aid:

"USA's aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP is already lowest of any industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically in the last three years, their dollar amount has been the highest."

Do you realize that the U.S. accepts more immigrants than any other country in the world.

The US is the most economically successful country in the world, and the average income there is larger than anywhere else. They are the the flagship of the developed world. It only seems natural that this would be the case.

How about some praise for the U.S., instead of making ridiculous statements like "the U.S.A. has supported terrorism in the past."

That's not a ridiculous statement at all. Especially in Central America and Southeast Asia, the US has given weapons and finanical support that have killed hundreds of thousands of people in crimes of humanity. The US has also directly killed many hundreds of thousands more. This is the truth. You want some examples? What about the carpet bombing of Cambodia, and support of the Khmer Rouge, which eventually lead to millions of dead civilians? What about sending Indonesia all of the weapons that they needed to complete the East Timor Genocide, which resulted in the death of 200,000? What about the support and arming of the Nicaragua's government illegally put in place by the USA so that over 80,000 dissidents could be killed off, or the Arming and support of Guatemala's government death squads that killed nearly 300,000 people over the course of two decades, right into the late '90s? What about arming and supporting the rebels in Angola between 1974 and 1992, when they killed 650,000? What about the CIA-sponsored terrorism in Lebanon in the mid-80s that killed thousands? What about the training and financial backing for El Salvador's government death squads, which killed nearly 80,000? What about arming and financially supporting the Turkish regime that killed over 27,000 Kurds and dissidents in the mid-90s? What about the My Lai massacre? What about support for urban bombers in Italy during in 1980? What about carpet bombing the civilians of Vietnam and Laos in the '60s and '70s, resulting in over 2.5 million deaths?

As I said earlier, I'm here to offer a different side to the story, and that's why I'm choosing not to praise the US. I've enjoyed every time I've visited the US (except one when I went for a funeral), and I think that Americans as people are kind and welcoming. However, there's already lots of praise out there, and not enough is known about the gloomier apects of the US, especially historically. What I personally not like is the US government's foreign, humanitarian, and environmental policy. I like the US as a country, and they have done many great things for the world. I just want to make sure you see both sides of the picture.

[crisis]

For example, I am always shocked at being asked to carry a card in my wallet for medical coverage as I may not be picked up by an ambulance if I didn't have medical cover. ANYONE having an accident in Europe will be taken to the best facility in the immediate area for treatment with no questions asked and costs covered by an inter-government agreement for an extension of our respective National health systems. Perhaps if you know someone who can't afford private medical care and has serious illness you're view may adjust.

If you are talking about the US, it is also worth relfecting that in some countries there are no aumbulances to not pick you up. A bad health system is still a health system. We should always strive for something better though.

[taz_rocks_miami]

Crimefighter: This is copied over from another thread (that just died), and I feel that it would be pretty relevent here....

-----------------------------------------------



Of course they have, according to them. The US, dozens of times, has helped leaders get overthrown in favour of their own national interests. It's been happening since the late forties, with some example countires like Laos, Honduras, Haiti, Liberia, Chad, Grenada, Fiji, Cambodia, Venezuela, and many others. Many supported coups have been in favour of governments that will allow easier US access to resources and labour.



Do you realize that the economic pressure that the US has put on the world's underdeveloped countries is one of the major reasons why they've gotten stuck in their situations in the first place? The aid provided by the US does not come anywhere near close to offsetting the economic stress and dependence that they've influenced. And besides, it would only be expected that the US provides more aid than any other country. The US has the world's largest economy, by a longshot.

Here's a quote from a site looking at the United Nations agreements for rich countires to provide international aid:

"USA's aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP is already lowest of any industrialized nation in the world, though paradoxically in the last three years, their dollar amount has been the highest."



The US is the most economically successful country in the world, and the average income there is larger than anywhere else. They are the the flagship of the developed world. It only seems natural that this would be the case.



That's not a ridiculous statement at all. Especially in Central America and Southeast Asia, the US has given weapons and finanical support that have killed hundreds of thousands of people in crimes of humanity. The US has also directly killed many hundreds of thousands more. This is the truth. You want some examples? What about the carpet bombing of Cambodia, and support of the Khmer Rouge, which eventually lead to millions of dead civilians? What about sending Indonesia all of the weapons that they needed to complete the East Timor Genocide, which resulted in the death of 200,000? What about the support and arming of the Nicaragua's government illegally put in place by the USA so that over 80,000 dissidents could be killed off, or the Arming and support of Guatemala's government death squads that killed nearly 300,000 people over the course of two decades, right into the late '90s? What about arming and supporting the rebels in Angola between 1974 and 1992, when they killed 650,000? What about the CIA-sponsored terrorism in Lebanon in the mid-80s that killed thousands? What about the training and financial backing for El Salvador's government death squads, which killed nearly 80,000? What about arming and financially supporting the Turkish regime that killed over 27,000 Kurds and dissidents in the mid-90s? What about the My Lai massacre? What about support for urban bombers in Italy during in 1980? What about carpet bombing the civilians of Vietnam and Laos in the '60s and '70s, resulting in over 2.5 million deaths?

As I said earlier, I'm here to offer a different side to the story, and that's why I'm choosing not to praise the US. I've enjoyed every time I've visited the US (except one when I went for a funeral), and I think that Americans as people are kind and welcoming. However, there's already lots of praise out there, and not enough is known about the gloomier apects of the US, especially historically. What I personally not like is the US government's foreign, humanitarian, and environmental policy. I like the US as a country, and they have done many great things for the world. I just want to make sure you see both sides of the picture.

I have to admit that US past and present US governments have done and still do some questionable things that have nothing to do with "helping others" as it tries to promote and protect it's own interests. But let's be honest here, before the US was in a economic, politacal, industrial and military possition to do so, it was the Europians (England, Spain, France, Portugal and so on) who did the very same things.

I'm not saying it's right, then or now, but you who criticize us for doing so, take a look back at your own history and reflect on wether or not your nation was guilty of similar practices. And more importantly, what do you propose? Let's pretend the US disapered tomorrow, someone else would take it's place, what do you propose to keep that nation from doing the same things all over again?

Taz.

[Matra et Alpine]

I'm not saying it's right, then or now, but you who criticize us for doing so, take a look back at your own history and reflect on wether or not your nation was guilty of similar practices.

We did, we have, we recognised and learned.
So often Us citizens aren't taught it in the schools or covered in media.

And more importantly, what do you propose? Let's pretend the US disapered tomorrow, someone else would take it's place, what do you propose to keep that nation from doing the same things all over again?

Taz.

It's called enlightenment.
For it to happen the first thing necessary is to recognise it, accept it and then learn to not do it again.

Most nations learn from others, so Dutch colonial reduction gave lessons for British colonial speratism. So the British Commonwealth was formed to retain the good bits

But if you don't look for the success of others you dont' get the chance to learn the good !!

[Matra et Alpine]

If you are talking about the US, it is also worth relfecting that in some countries there are no aumbulances to not pick you up. A bad health system is still a health system. We should always strive for something better though.

Agreed.

Which countries don't have ambulances ??

Typically it's the ones with village hospitals or no roads.
Or Australia wher eit's easier to take the doctor to the accident than the patient to hospital

[Egg Nog]

I'm not saying it's right, then or now, but you who criticize us for doing so, take a look back at your own history and reflect on wether or not your nation was guilty of similar practices. And more importantly, what do you propose? Let's pretend the US disapered tomorrow, someone else would take it's place, what do you propose to keep that nation from doing the same things all over again?

Well, Canada is pretty good with quite a few of these issues. Our government is looking at paying out compensations to the families of the Chinese immigrants who built our national railway back during the birth of the country. One aspect of how people are treated that (similarly to in the States) is the most lacking is regarding aboriginal peoples. That's definitely something we've got to sort out.

Canada is a bit different though... we've never really waged war on anyone, but rather, taken a more defensive approach. A past Canadian Prime Minister was actually the person who created the concept of peacekeeping, which was effectively the final solution during the Suez canal crisis. It was a Canadian general who tried to get the world to listen during the genocide in Rwanda (no response from anyone, very unfortunately).

So anyway, there's not a whole lot to deal with as far as military things go... Canada is most focused on improving out health care system right now, and other matters of national reform.

I definately would not consider myself to be "anti-American" at all, but I am definately critical of the US government's behaviour over the course of history, especially under Republican leaders like Reagan. However, everything can be pardoned to a certain extent. The world has forgiven Germany for the holocaust, and everyone has moved on. The only major issue I still have with American political history is the World Court repairations and other such things that the US refuses to pay to this day. If I heard that any of these were finally being paid off, I'd be a lot happier about everything, and I'm sure the countries on the receiving end would too

[Matra et Alpine]

Canada is a bit different though... we've never really waged war on anyone, but rather, taken a more defensive approach.

For sure.
The only country where a shopping mall (edmonton) has more registered submarines than the navy

[Egg Nog]

For sure.
The only country where a shopping mall (edmonton) has more registered submarines than the navy

All of our submarines are kept indoors, where it is warm. Everyone knows that in Canada, all of the water outside is frozen.

By the way, the undersea submarine thing is totally lame, but it's a pretty interesting mall. That's where I took these photos.

[Matra et Alpine]

All of our submarines are kept indoors, where it is warm. Everyone knows that in Canada, all of the water outside is frozen.

By the way, the undersea submarine thing is totally lame, but it's a pretty interesting mall. That's where I took these photos.

Do they still have the crazy "broken lift" ride ?
I think I might have spent a whole morning riding it

[crisis]

Agreed.

Which countries don't have ambulances ??

Typically it's the ones with village hospitals or no roads.
Or Australia wher eit's easier to take the doctor to the accident than the patient to hospital

We have flying ambulances. The Royal Flying Doctor Service which will come and save your arse almost anywhere on the mainland. Thats of course if you have a HF radio to contact them or an epirb.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well the truth is out.....

Bush has admitted ON TV that he is doing everything he can to harm his country and his people

Is it a Bush-ism, or is Kerry paying his script-writers more money !!

[RX7 FC3S]

Darn... Matra was faster than me... I was going to post this news
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sh_misspeak_dc


I am not sure about the exact wording of what Bush said, but if I work for him I would have just add something like "we need to think as if our enermy, so that we can think of ways to counter it"