AK-47 Type I vs. Colt M16A1

[The Tuner]

^^ lol!

remington 700 anyday, with dum-dums. (btw, explosive bullets [mercury or lead filled tip] and dum-dums are the same thing?)

1 problem i heard in the ak was that its too easy for the mag to get jammed, and thus slow down or totally stop the reloadin process...tru?

[jcp123]

Never heard that, I know that the original M16's had chambers that often jammed because they would get corroded ridiculously easily, maybe that's what you were thinking of...AK's are practically indestructible, you could probably drag it through the ocean and put it away for months, then when you get it back out you just slap a mag in there, kick open the bolt, and fire away.

[NAZCA C2]

disgusting thread, if I had the power I would have removed it.

There ain't nothin wrong with guns man! I go shooting all the time. I never killed anyone or anything crazy like that. Guns in the hands of responsible adults are good not bad. I don't know if guns are legal in your country or not but if you get a chance to go shooting you should definately do it.

[QuattroMan]

Ak For Meeeee!!!

[crisis]

obviously they were designed to kill human beings, but why is it that you immediately put them into the hands of criminals as opposed to a law abiding citizen defending them selves? Guns are tools, and they were not made merely for hunting. Guns are the great equalizer, they give weaker individuals a way to defend them selves from those who would do them harm. To say they are only used for right or wrong is ignorant. They are merely tools in the hands of their operators.

And a large amount of Americans seem to be very comfortable with thousand of their countrymen owning lethal weapons. I know you have to register and sit for licences and all thet crap but that has never stopped mentally unstable people getting their hands on these weapons when they want to. Its not only criminals with illegal weapons who cause trouble. Its sometimes normal people who snap and have the guns easily available. Im glad that we are not allowed the proliferation of high powered eapons in Australia. The less there are, thes less chance of people getting them.

Assault rifles are no different, to say noone needs them because they are designed to kill is moronic. The very fact they they are available to people is a deterrent to tyrants and oppressive government, along with your run of the mill violent criminals. Obviously they can also be used for evil, that is the cost of freedom. I am willing to accept that cost, you may not be. Just try and consider all the facts, that's all.

Sorry if this post came off as angry or confrontational. Just trying to state my opinion, and I respect yours as well even if I don't agree with it.

Good. Because speaking of moronic, the premise that public ownership of high powered weapons empowers them to deter tyrants and oppressive governments comes under that heading. The romantic notion that Billy Bob and his back wood militia can rise up and overthrow any governemtn these days is stupid. Make a list of oppressive govenments who have been overthrown by the public in the last twenty years maybe fifty. And to think that it could happen in the US is even worse. Have you seen an M1A1, Apache, AC130? Good luck. You know whole nations havent been able to defend themselves from your miltary so a bunch of poorly trained civillians against Rangers, Seals and throw in the rest of your army for back up would be the worlds quickest revolution.

[Coventrysucks]

The round tumbles inside the body, and changes direction on impact, causing severe muscle tissue destruction.

Such a nice topic to discuss.
Glad to know that you fill your time with such happy thoughts.

That will change once a foreign power ivades your homeland and kills all your family.

When is that happening then?

I suppose the M16 is ok if you are in the US military, but for your average user the AK is easier to aquire, maintain, and keep supplied with ammo.

[CdocZ]

The round tumbles inside the body, and changes direction on impact, causing severe muscle tissue destruction.

hollow points also do something a bit like that. except instead of flying around all over the inside of the body, the bullet shatters and rips apart everything in its path, and if it hits a bone, thatll shatter too, adding to the fragments (nice to think about that actually happening huh?)

[more-boost1555]

^^^^^now THAT is a heavy rifle, with heavy bulletsYeah, like Matra said this isn't really a good point, you want the bullet to stay inside the body not go through it.Well I guess that is your opinion, but when it comes to be I guns that are heavier and more durable. In fact, my favourite gun right now is the all-steel version of the CZ-75. Though heavy, it is durable. The extra weight is not really a problem. As for carrying more 5.56mm rounds, I have to disagree. One of the main reasons the M43 soviet round is so popular is because people can carry a lot of it. Sure you can't carry as much as 5.56mm rounds, but it is still a lot. This is why weight is not that big of a deal in my opinion.

I see your point, we agree to disagree

[more-boost1555]

oh I don't know .....


I've got my ranked list of UCP members handy

I wouldn't happen to be on that list would I? *gulp*

[byronleehk]

Never had an M16 so I can't comment on that...

Have 3 Ak-47s, all made in different countries - Romania, China and E. Germany. The Romanian one james often and it has the Norico receiver, maybe it's just my bad luck

[more-boost1555]

And a large amount of Americans seem to be very comfortable with thousand of their countrymen owning lethal weapons. I know you have to register and sit for licences and all thet crap but that has never stopped mentally unstable people getting their hands on these weapons when they want to. Its not only criminals with illegal weapons who cause trouble. Its sometimes normal people who snap and have the guns easily available. Im glad that we are not allowed the proliferation of high powered eapons in Australia. The less there are, thes less chance of people getting them.



Good. Because speaking of moronic, the premise that public ownership of high powered weapons empowers them to deter tyrants and oppressive governments comes under that heading. The romantic notion that Billy Bob and his back wood militia can rise up and overthrow any governemtn these days is stupid. Make a list of oppressive govenments who have been overthrown by the public in the last twenty years maybe fifty. And to think that it could happen in the US is even worse. Have you seen an M1A1, Apache, AC130? Good luck. You know whole nations havent been able to defend themselves from your miltary so a bunch of poorly trained civillians against Rangers, Seals and throw in the rest of your army for back up would be the worlds quickest revolution.

Lol, geeze Crisis, your comments are so socialist it's ridiculous. Do you really trust the government to know better than your self what is good and bad for you? Yes please take away my freedoms in the name of safety, that is what you are saying you know. Do you really feel safer now that guns are illegal to own in your country? Do you think someone who "snaps", is going to rethink things and calm down simply because there are no guns? You say waiting periods/back round checks have never stopped guns from getting into the wrong hands. Do you really think that if someone in your country wanted to gain access to a firearm, your laws would stop them? If someone is intent on using a gun to commit crime, they will not be deterred by the fact that it is illegal to gain access to said gun. It may be marginally more difficult to illegally aquire a firearm in a country in which guns are illegal. However, in my opinion, that is a terrible price to pay for the denial of the right of a law abiding citizen to bear arms. The people willing to break laws and commit crimes will still find a way to gain access to weapons of one sort or another. Whilst the good citizen, loses his freedom and use of the guns for recreation as well as self defense.

Really I thought you were more intelligent than this Crisis. I'm no genius (I'm sure you will agree with me on that, lol) but even I have enough common sense to know that guns DO give people the power to overthrow governments. Just ask your self one question, if you are a dictator of one sort or another and wish to exploit the nation under you what is the first thing you do? Take away their weapons obviously. That is the first step towards oppression. Countless governments in third world countries have been overthrown in the last century. Have you ever heard of the American Civil war? People with guns from the south rising up against the union, obviously they did not win. That is not the point though. It is the cold hard fact, that citizens with guns have a means of protection from oppression in any form. To be so naive as to say that our government will never move away from democracy and that we can allways trust in them is what I would call moronic. Now of course I'm not building a bomb shelter and gearing up for combat. But I will never, ever, allow my right to be infringed upon.

Regardless of whether you see my previous points, just answer this one question. Why should a law abiding, mentally stable, citizen of the U.S. with no previous criminal record not be allowed to keep and bear arms?

[jcp123]

If you make guns illegal, criminals will find a way to get them anyway. When there's a will, there's a way. Why take away a healthy hobby for millions because some nutjobs can't control themselves?

[crisis]

Lol, geeze Crisis, your comments are so socialist it's ridiculous. Do you really trust the government to know better than your self what is good and bad for you?

No, but we , and you elect them witht that in mind.

Yes please take away my freedoms in the name of safety, that is what you are saying you know.

Like the freedom to drive a car wherever I want at whatever speed I want, the freedom to act however I want regardless of how it might affect or endanger others. The freedom to take drugs. The freedom to settle my differences with anybody however I see fit. Get real. Our and your freedom is limited. Why? Because there are some people who cant make sensible decisions by themself. Some Americans seem to default to single word generalisations like socialist, liberal (if you dont like them), communist etc to rubbish contraditing points of view. Whatever heading you consider my thoughts to come under your country is socialist to a degree. And thats how this argument has to be debated. By degrees. There is no wrong and right in absolute terms.

Do you really feel safer now that guns are illegal to own in your country?

Guns arent illegal, but yes, I suppose I feel a little safer that there are less guns. Less for people to get hold of accidentally, illegally or otherwise. It is tempered by the fact that far fewer Australians have a love affair with guns so they were never really prevelant.

Do you think someone who "snaps", is going to rethink things and calm down simply because there are no guns?

Thats a rather strange statement but if there were no guns it wouldnt matter as much what he thought if he intended to attack other people.

You say waiting periods/back round checks have never stopped guns from getting into the wrong hands. Do you really think that if someone in your country wanted to gain access to a firearm, your laws would stop them? If someone is intent on using a gun to commit crime, they will not be deterred by the fact that it is illegal to gain access to said gun.

No. If criminals want guns they will get them. Just that most gun related murders are crimes of passion or fits of peak. A spouse looses it and wipes out his family or a student looses it and wipes out his school mates. Give them acess to a fire arm and off they go. Give them 12 hours to think about it or sober up and maybe it dosent seem such a good idea anymore. Most murders within the criminal world are perpertrated on each other. No great loss there.

It may be marginally more difficult to illegally aquire a firearm in a country in which guns are illegal. However, in my opinion, that is a terrible price to pay for the denial of the right of a law abiding citizen to bear arms.

I think some innocent life is a terrible price to pay for others desire to own an uneccessary toy.

The people willing to break laws and commit crimes will still find a way to gain access to weapons of one sort or another. Whilst the good citizen, loses his freedom and use of the guns for recreation as well as self defense.

Guns for recreation or safety? Recreation goes in my opinion. There are plenty of other outlets for your spare time. Only live once though. Self defence? IT is debateable whether the fact that all parties are armed escalates the danger or subdues it. In the end if someone is robbing you you can let them take it. In most cases they will be caught by the authorities. Or you can pitch your own gunfighting skills against your opponent. My guess many people consider themselves better than they really are.

Really I thought you were more intelligent than this Crisis. I'm no genius (I'm sure you will agree with me on that, lol) but even I have enough common sense to know that guns DO give people the power to overthrow governments.

Thats not common sense, it is romantic idealism. A tired old line run out by the gun lobby to try and justify their cause. You could never, ever overthrow your govenrnment.

Just ask your self one question, if you are a dictator of one sort or another and wish to exploit the nation under you what is the first thing you do? Take away their weapons obviously. That is the first step towards oppression. Countless governments in third world countries have been overthrown in the last century.

Feel free to list them and the circumstances they were overthrown. Bare in mind third world citizens generally dont have enough money for food let alone weapons. And the governemts do not have the military strength of yours.

Have you ever heard of the American Civil war? People with guns from the south rising up against the union, obviously they did not win. That is not the point though.

No it aint. I dont remember the Civil war but Ive heard it happened. Apparently the airforce werent needed in that one, nor the armour or high tech weapons. Dont talk to me about who is intelligent.

It is the cold hard fact, that citizens with guns have a means of protection from oppression in any form.

No , its a another sweeping generalisation.

To be so naive as to say that our government will never move away from democracy and that we can allways trust in them is what I would call moronic. Now of course I'm not building a bomb shelter and gearing up for combat. But I will never, ever, allow my right to be infringed upon.

So you are keeping your gun to stop the government moving away from democracy? If they do you will not be doing anything with your gun except getting buried with it, if they let you.

Regardless of whether you see my previous points, just answer this one question. Why should a law abiding, mentally stable, citizen of the U.S. with no previous criminal record not be allowed to keep and bear arms?

Other than so there guns dont fall into the hands of those who arent, none. Of course you should come up with a way of ensuring only law abiding, mentally stable citizens get them. Check the label maybe.

[The Tuner]

not biased either way, but i seem to be leanin to crisis's point of view...we dont have guns here in uae, it illegal to own em, and i think thats a good thing. but personally, i wud really like to have a few guns, n use em for practice or hunting.

can the person who started this thread add a poll? shud b interestin to see how many ppl think guns shud/shudnt b outlawed.

[cls12vg30]

In the end if someone is robbing you you can let them take it. In most cases they will be caught by the authorities.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL..This is me laughing my tail end off. Tell that to the drugged-up guy that robbed my brother and me at gunpoint and hit me with the gun unprovoked just to even the odds, breaking my jaw in two places, and never got caught. If I had been armed and properly trained at that time, as I am now, it never would have happened. As in most crimes, I had plenty of signs that something was about to go wrong if I knew what to look for, and plenty of time to beat that scumbag to the draw, and make darn sure he understood that I was armed and prepared to defend myself. At which time there is a 97% probability he would have turned tail and run, and found some "softer" target.

Just bending over and taking it when criminals want to victimize you, is not only a personally offensive concept, it's pretty damn dangerous. In a disarmed society, you've gone back to medeival days. The biggest and the strongest rule. Anybody with a kitchen knife can rob, rape, and pillage to their heart's content, until the "authorities catch them", which is AFTER the crime or crimes have already occurred, and innocent people may be injured or dead.

A gun is the great equalizer, it allows a 90-pound woman to effectively defend herself against a 300-pound attacker, something that would otherwise be impossible.

You lament innocent life, but you're not doing the math. In the US guns are used to prevent crimes between 500,000 and 2 million times each year. How many innocent lives saved does that represent? No one can say for sure, but I am quite confident it is greater than the number of innocent lives lost to accidents with legal firearms, which are in actuality quite rare.

And a large amount of Americans seem to be very comfortable with thousand of their countrymen owning lethal weapons.

Yes, we are. I trust my fellow law-abiding American citizens to own lethal weapons, as I expect them to trust me. I live in an aparment complex, and I am comfortable that several of my neighbors are as well-armed as I am. Helps me sleep better at night. How this mutual trust can be seen as a bad thing is beyond me. I trust my fellow citizens much more than I trust the government. The idea of a government saying that only the government is allowed to have firearms, you little citizens are not allowed, you might get hurt.........my God that is so offensive it makes me choke.