Pro-Gun Laws Lobbyists...

[crisis]

The hammers i get. The chairs i had to see in action.

See earlier posts this thread.

Some utter twat from my school, with obvious anger management issues, threw a chair at the wall. it left a dent in solid brickwork.

One would assume before that incedent ( and probably still) he may have easily have gotten a gun licence with no police record.
Volatile person + gun = what im talkin bout.

[PerfAdv]

Home defense makes sense, concealed on-person doesn't. Hunting requires it, OK maybe you could use a composite bow. The problem again is education. Just like the driving license guns are way way way too easy to get. Idiots on the street killing with their cars and an overflow of guns on the street doing the same.

Drinking while using these powerful tools only multiplies the inherent danger. A few years ago a friend told me about a close call while driving in Houston, could have happened in any big US city but since I used to live there... he made a left turn using the right lane of two lanes turning left. Well, the guy who was in the left most lane turned wide and ended up pushing his way into the other lane. My friend honked at him, no fingers, but a long and loud blast, and even if there were gestures, wtf. The other guy moved back into the left lane and at the next stop light brandished a handgun, then pointed it at him. Needless to say, my friend instinctively raised his arms and the guy laughed and drove off. He was probably drunk but the point is, at that moment, he couldn't have killed with his bad breath or a empty beer can. Emboldened by the booze, incensed by his pathetic existense, who gives a ****. Guns are floating around too freely.

Take them all away and then make them harder to get. Unless you volutarily get a license which requires safety instruction.

[my porsche]

My_porsche is 13, and he said that he "owns several guns".

i also passed a hunters safety, and several gun safety tests with a perfect score on each

[cls12vg30]

Allow me to chime in on one of my favorite subjects.

To all who have said that "hunting and sport shooting is OK, but no concealed handguns", I absolutely disagree. The inherent human right to self-defense is no less inalienable than any other right. It is the right of all free people to defend themselves, their families, and their homes by the most effective means available.

The 36 states which now have "shall-issue" concealed carry laws (they HAVE to issue you a carry permit if you aren't disqualified by felony, restraining order, or mental deficiency) have seen a significant and measurable decrease in murder, rape, robbery, and other violent crime in the 15 years since Florida became the first state to bring back concealed-carry. (Congratulations to Missouri and Ohio, the two most recent). In my state, only about 3% of the people have such permits, but a decade of statistics have shown that they make the other 97% safer from criminals. Crimes committed with legally-owned and legally-carried firearms are virtually nonexistent. Law-abiding, responsible citizens CAN handle carrying guns in public. It has been proven.

Banning guns is foolish to even talk about, even if it wasn't a gross violation of human rights. The UK's rate of violent crime and even gun crime has skyrocketed since the people there were disarmed. I mean, if all these governments can't keep cocaine, heroine, etc. out of the country, what makes anyone think they can keep guns out? A "gun-free society" is nice to daydream about, but anything more is a waste of time. If you can find a way to travel back to the 15th century and de-invent the firearm, go ahead. Otherwise, learn to live with them.

There is also a perfectly logical reason why most gun-owners oppose registration and do not want the government to know they have guns and how many. Such measures have almost invariably been a prelude to confiscation in other countries, both recently and throughout history. (Hitler was one of the first in modern history to disarm his country this way, little by little, starting with the Jews.)

Which leads me to the REAL purpose of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. It has nothing to do with hunting, target shooting, or even self-defense. It has to do with freedom. The Constitution was written by men who had just finished winning independence with GUNS. They had witnessed what any government is capable of that is not accountable to the people.

The true purpose of the 2nd Amendment is a last-ditch safeguard for the people against the rising of a tyrannical government. History has proven time and again that a well-armed populace is the surest guarantee of liberty. Those that say these ideas are out-of-date, I disagree. Many in Poland thought the same thing in 1935. People all over the world, most especially Africa and Asia, continue to rise in armed revolt against oppressive governments, and I support their right to do so. It's called self-determination. War is horrible, but slavery is worse. Maybe such things will never again have to happen in our "civilized" countries of North America, Europe, and Australia. Am I willing to bet my life and my liberty on that assumption? No way. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and there are millions of us that are armed, trained, and ready, should that day ever come.

[Ferrari Tifosi]

A city near me, Kennesaw encourages there citizens to own a firearm, and a huge majority does. They crime there is near non-existent, and this is a city with a fair amount of people there. So I see that a gun is not the problem its the person, who goes nuts and kills people. In the US if you've ever been arrested you can't buy a gun legally (I believe). The real problem is that here it is so easy to get a gun without going through the registration and that stuff. But none the less I believe we should be able to own guns for not only self defense but for recreation like hunting and skeet and target shooting (which is an olympic event I believe). I know guns kept my family safe back in '67 during the riots in Detroit (which for people who don't know were the worst riots in the history of the US, Detroit was pratically a battleground), when some rioters tried to ransack their house. Well my uncle got the rifle and that got them out of there quickly. So basically, yeah, I do believe in the controlled ownership of guns here. As seen before banning something here isn't a great idea and can lead to even more crime .

[cossie]

The trouble is we are all capable of murder,that split second of primal rage cannot be stopped so we lash out by punching walls,abusive language,etc, so if you have gun at easy reach whilst in this state you are capable of pulling the trigger with out any regard for the consequences,beating someone to death with a chair,implement is something that goes above and beyond our primal anger,it's calculated and malicious which fortunately something only a very small minority possess.They should ban the bloody things for general public (I have shot a few,I couldn't see the excitement in them )especially conceled weapons,you just have to look at the stats,11000 gun related incidents in the US in one year compared to something like 60 in the UK and 30 in OZ(think those stats are right from what I remember from that documentary),doesn't seem that safe in the states to me

[SlickHolden]

A gun is made for one thing to kill.
And i know this i would rather dodge a chair table bat knife, Then dodge a bullett.
If you make it harder to get guns and make them that have them go through checks anything will help, But shit who needs a gun in there house for protection come on please, Thats how trouble starts, How about the Dad that shot his son, The son went out late after his mum and dad went to bed to see his girlfriend, Comes hom sneaks in dad comes out with his gun can't see who it is, See's a flash is that a gun??? opens fire kills him, Hey it was just a mobile phone.

Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine Doc by Michael Moore?
He says Americans live in fear, It's thrown down your necks that your unsafe all the time, Like Y2K that never happend, Or the killer bees that never arived,
When you see that Doc you see that you can go out and buy some clothes and k-mart and wile your there hey pick up 5 boxes of 9mm bullets.
It's to easy and all needs to change, And thanks to him they got bullets off there menu so to speak. But it took him with some of the victims of the Columbine school shooting to get the message through,
He also told the story of the 6 year old girl that took a hand gun to school and killed another 6 year old girl,

[SlickHolden]

The trouble is we are all capable of murder,that split second of primal rage cannot be stopped so we lash out by punching walls,abusive language,etc, so if you have gun at easy reach whilst in this state you are capable of pulling the trigger with out any regard for the consequences,beating someone to death with a chair,implement is something that goes above and beyond our primal anger,it's calculated and malicious which fortunately something only a very small minority possess.They should ban the bloody things for general public (I have shot a few,I couldn't see the excitement in them )especially conceled weapons,you just have to look at the stats,11000 gun related incidents in the US in one year compared to something like 60 in the UK and 30 in OZ(think those stats are right from what I remember from that documentary),doesn't seem that safe in the states to me

You must have just watched the same one i just did. Bowling for Columbine.
It was very good.

[Ferrari Tifosi]

A gun is made for one thing to kill.
And i know this i would rather dodge a chair table bat knife, Then dodge a bullett.
If you make it harder to get guns and make them that have them go through checks anything will help, But shit who needs a gun in there house for protection come on please, Thats how trouble starts, How about the Dad that shot his son, The son went out late after his mum and dad went to bed to see his girlfriend, Comes hom sneaks in dad comes out with his gun can't see who it is, See's a flash is that a gun??? opens fire kills him, Hey it was just a mobile phone.

Like I said in an early post I believe have guns for self defense is a good thing. I can name a couple of times they've protect me, my family, or my friends. I used to live near Detroit (the worst city to live in in the World apparently) and crime often made its way out to where I lived. I've already told one of my stories in an earlier post but here's another. My grandfather, who was a cop for the city of Detroit but not at the time of this story, had a guy try to highjack his car from him with a knife. So my grandfather calmly got his gun that he carried with at all times and that was enough to get that guy to put his knife away, and sit on the curb while they waited for the police to show up. When you live in some places you NEED protection, or else you face the risk of being killed or being a victim to a crime. It all comes down to the person, and statistics in America have shown that there is a very small amount a homicides committed by people with registered guns. cls12vg30 made many good points in his post about why we do have this right and why it needs to be protected. What I believe the gov't should focus more on is not so much laws for the legal selling of guns (although they are important), but more on getting rid of illegally sold firearms in America. That's where the real problems lies.

[cossie]

You must have just watched the same one i just did. Bowling for Columbine.
It was very good.

Yeah watched it a few months back,very good documentary,I want to see his 911 one next.
The trouble with guns that are so readily available to the public is they tend to fall into the wrong hands,I have been to South Africa quite a bit in the last few years,and you Yanks think you live in a dangerous city,childrens playground compared to SA.I was horrified at how many gun crimes happen over there(I think it is 3 deaths a day on average).The guns come across the African borders straight into the townships and handed out like candy to anyone who wants,pistols to the AK.It still depresses me to think of the news footage from last year of 2 African guys from a township in Johanesburg who decided to take a walk down the road to the freeway and they jumped in front of a car who stopped,they brandished a pistol and shot dead the white husband and wife in front of their 2 kids in the back seat and walked off,when they were asked why they just shook their heads and said"we just felt like it"

[QuattroMan]

i think they shud b allowed, but only with raell, REALLY strict rules...none of that whatevernumberitis amendment that allows u to hide any and everything...

btw...is wat i jus sed rite? coz thats wat i understood...is there any such law?

like what? keep your gun @ home if you need it run to your house and come back to the scene, it is stupid we to have keep the gun in the glove compartment and cartridge in the pack....the bad guy has a gun on you and your no were near for your gun, by then it is to late....

[QuattroMan]

A gun is made for one thing to kill.

Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine Doc by Michael Moore?
He says Americans live in fear, It's thrown down your necks that your unsafe all the time, Like Y2K that never happend, Or the killer bees that never arived,
When you see that Doc you see that you can go out and buy some clothes and k-mart and wile your there hey pick up 5 boxes of 9mm bullets.
It's to easy and all needs to change, And thanks to him they got bullets off there menu so to speak. But it took him with some of the victims of the Columbine school shooting to get the message through,
He also told the story of the 6 year old girl that took a hand gun to school and killed another 6 year old girl,

I have seen it Michael Moore is a "MOORE ON" he is fool of [email protected] his stpid documentary bull.......it is easer to go after k-mart then criminals,I don't see him go to SOUTH central LA ask dose questions, they'll put a bullet in his FAT @ss.

[my porsche]

yeah i was mistaken, i think concealed hand guns SHOULD be allowed, because if you think about most of the people with licences wont shoot anyone unless in self deffense, its the UNLICENSED people who bust a cap

michael moore is an idiot, lets end it there, no political argument

my grandpa has a shotgun in the trunk of his BMW and a handgun in the glove compartment of his jaguar, his house in a really nice neighborhood, which makes his house a target for robbery, and his gun next to his bed has come in handy SEVERAL times, one time when he was away on business, while my aunt was still in highschool, and livivng there, some guy broke in while they were asleep and moved all the furniture and laid out a blanket and some ropes where he was going to rape my aunt and grand ma, he came into my aunts room and she grabbed my dad's baseball bat and hit him in the head, she screamed, my grandma heard her, and as the robber was coming down the stairs my grandma was going up, with a gun, needless to say he got the hell out of there


another time was when someone broke in, and my grandpa chased him into the back yard with his 12 ga. and shot him in the leg as he was climbing the fence

they called the police on all of these charges, and it was self deffense, you should never shoot, or shoot at someone unless its self deffense, i cant see any other reason can anyone else?

[ryjon]

i have a question....im doign a speech on guns for school...i was wondering...if you guys could help me out. what do you need to buy a gun? do u need a special license? do u need a license to own a gun in your home? do u even really have to register the gun u own? if u could give me a little help or a web site with this info that would be great....thanks

[cls12vg30]

ryjon, I assume you want to focus on the United States, where the laws vary widely from state to state, because our federalist system limits what the central government can do, and reserves many powers for the individual states (that seperation of powers thing, yet another safeguard against tyranny.) I like it that way, because if someone wants to live someplace where guns are heavily regulated, they can move to NY or California, if someone else wants to be able to carry a handgun all the time, with no permit, unregulated, they can move to Vermont. The other states fall between those extremes.
I am most knowledgeable about the laws of my state, North Carolina. Anyone can walk into Wal-Mart and buy a rifle or shotgun (and pay too much ), when you do so you fill out a form stating under penalty of perjury that you're not a felon, fugitive from justice, you're not buying the gun for someone else, etc. They run an instant federal background check, and you take your gun home.
Buying a handgun is a bit more complicated, you have to go to the county Sheriff's department and apply for a permit to purchase one, it takes about a week while they run the background checks, you pay a $5 fee for each permit which is good to purchase one pistol. This is NOT a permit to carry a concealed weapon. For that, you have to take a state-approved course which costs $60-100, and when you pass that, you get a certificate. You take that to the Sheriff's department, pay another $90 application fee, and get fingerprinted. They have 90 days to issue the permit, or if it is denied, provide you with the reason for denial. There is a specific list of reasons for which they can deny your permit. Surprisingly, my concealed-carry permit only took two weeks from the day I turned in the application to the day they called me to tell me it was ready to be picked up. (I guess I'm just a real upstanding citizen. ) The permit must be renewed every five years, and it does not allow me to carry a weapon into anyplace where alcohol is served, to any political demonstrations, government facilities, or any business which posts conspicuous signs saying that they do not allow concealed weapons.


Oh and to those posters who went on about "primal anger", and whaling on someone with a chair, so it's better not to have a gun available, I wonder either A) What kind of movies you watch or B) What kind of people you hang out with. Your lack of faith in your fellow man is quite disturbing. In my experience, most of us are capable of keeping our heads and maintaining rational thought in even the most high-adrenaline situations. Those that get so angry they must destroy things or hurt people as you describe, will most likely commit an offense which will disqualify them from legal gun ownership by the time they're 21 years old. I'm just guessing there, because I've never known anyone closely who had such potential. Any people I've met that gave me the impression they might be capable of such things, I have steered clear of.

And I wouldn't believe one single word that comes out of the drooling pie-hole of Micheal Moore. The man's "documentaries" have been proven to be fiction several times over. He has no interest in the truth, only his socialist political agenda. Come over to the United States and tell me we live in fear. Possession of firearms is not an indication of fear. It is an indication of the refusal to live in fear.

As for Y2K that "never happened", you can thank the legions of "geeks" around the world who worked their butts off for 3 years to make sure it didn't happen. Not everything is a conspiracy.