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  #46  
Old 11-30-2011, 06:27 PM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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Yes. Contactless charging methods have become a field of some interest for electric equipment manufacturers. Products have been developed that allow charging of a mobile telephone, or similar device, with an inductive antenna inside, by simply placing it on a powered panel. Infrared transmission, for longer distances, has also been given some thought, but such "beam" power transmission has problems with aiming the beam, and with safety, in case someone walks through the beam. Also, all of these systems have been necessarily less efficient than a direct contact system. If the claim of 97% efficiency holds up, this will be easily the most efficient system that I have heard of. Some systems quote an efficiency as low as 50%, and that is easily enough to negate the benefits of electric drive, as long as the electricity comes from the grid (Green machine: Plug-free electric cars' hidden cost - tech - 02 August 2010 - New Scientist).

The inductive charging is a great way to improve the marketability of electric cars, but I would foresee problems with the distribution of the electricity, and with methods of billing for its use. Also, 10kw would probably not be enough (I would estimate) to maintain highway speeds in most cars, and such long-distance travel is where this technique would be most attractive. It would help to slow the rate of discharge of the car battery, and extend the car's range though, and I am sure that development will help to increase its power transfer capacity.

I have been most impressed today by this. It is probably the most extreme incarnation of my ideal that I have seen, and is roughly the motorcycle equivalent of the Daihatsu Mira E:s. I know that it comes with all of the practical and safety limitations of a motorcycle, but it is a great example of how it is possible to travel extremely efficiently, with a device that is also very simple, cheap, and very attractive.
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:17 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Infrared transmission, for longer distances, has also been given some thought, but such "beam" power transmission has problems with aiming the beam, and with safety, in case someone walks through the beam.
Also, I have some concerns about the safety issues and the impacts of such a plan on the humans' health. If the body of a human would have no problem with being exposed to these beams, like the radio waves, that can be considered as a proper solution for the EVs.
Quote:
Also, all of these systems have been necessarily less efficient than a direct contact system. If the claim of 97% efficiency holds up, this will be easily the most efficient system that I have heard of. Some systems quote an efficiency as low as 50%, and that is easily enough to negate the benefits of electric drive, as long as the electricity comes from the grid (Green machine: Plug-free electric cars' hidden cost - tech - 02 August 2010 - New Scientist).
Even a 50% efficiency is good enough, IMO; why? I don't discuss about the economical features, but it could provide a technical feature that is unique and the situation should not be limited to its normal efficiency. Let me explain more: As I told in the last post, the needed power for this system should be provided from those light poles, equipped with solar panels, VAWTs, and storage systems (battery or compressed-air).
Vertical Axis Wind Turbine, Wind Turbine, VAWT, HAWT, Hybrid eolic-solar, Wind generator engine, VAWT blade
Hybrid eolic-solar outdoor light 00210 - Detailed info for Hybrid eolic-solar outdoor light 00210,solar lightning,Hybrid eolic-solar outdoor light 00210,FD05 on Alibaba.com
.
This automatic plan looks better than my initial suggestion that drivers might pull over near a light pole, insert a credit card and charge the EV with small amounts to reach to nearest main center for charging. Like it or not, in any possible scenario, the cars pass over the roadways, so why not use this fact to give them a contribution of power?
Therefore, after reading this critique of that New Scientist article:
Quote:
Not everyone is convinced that the convenience of wireless charging systems is sufficient compensation for their reduced efficiency. The power lost by these systems in transferring energy could be enough to make electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles less environmentally friendly than conventional cars, says Michael Kintner-Meyer at the Energy and Environment Directorate at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Washington.

If you take into account the energy used to produce the electricity, and compare it with a well-to-wheel analysis of the most efficient diesel-engine cars available today, the difference is already fairly small, says Kintner-Meyer. "It's on the tipping point. It depends how green your electricity is," he says.

Even a 10 per cent loss in overall efficiency could make electric cars the less environmentally attractive option. "When you compare a highly efficient diesel engine car with an electric car, that 10 per cent may tip the needle," Kintner-Meyer says.
One finds if my suggested points would be done, the plan of wirelessly charging cars could be a quite green solution.
Quote:
The inductive charging is a great way to improve the marketability of electric cars, but I would foresee problems with the distribution of the electricity, and with methods of billing for its use. Also, 10kw would probably not be enough (I would estimate) to maintain highway speeds in most cars, and such long-distance travel is where this technique would be most attractive. It would help to slow the rate of discharge of the car battery, and extend the car's range though, and I am sure that development will help to increase its power transfer capacity.
As you might know about my strategy, I believe nothing is comparable with making an EV, as independent as possible. My car has to drive me in all conditions and I don't want to rely on magnetic coils embedded in the roadway (or an electromagnetic field generated by strips buried in the road), because such coils would be absent in the nature when I go camping and off-road; there might be out of order or other drivers might be using them, so I'd have to wait to my turn comes, etc …
However, I guess the best situation of using that plan is for the big, populated cities. Inside a city, you can find places where cars routinely stop for periods of a few minutes such as crossroads with stoplights. Power is already available and cars wait for a minute or so. If we install pretty usual solar panels or small wind turbines to power the light poles, there remains one attractive choice to generate power for the EVs, perhaps more than 10 kw and longer than 7 microseconds. I'm talking about harnessing pedestrian power not only for street lights, but also for the street EVs, the pavement slab that generates energy whenever a pedestrian walks across it, as the source of feeding the mentioned coils, called pavegen system:
The Cutting Edge News
The power of walking - Times Of India
Light fantastic: pedestrians to generate power
Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting Floor Mat | EEWeb
Emily Chang Generate Electricity by Walking
Future perfect: Piezoelectricity rising as a panacea for energy crisis
Toulouse Pedestrians May Tread a Dark Path The Blogs at HowStuffWorks
Laurence Kemball-Cook's innovation: the Pavegen | Environment | The Observer
French City Plans To Harness Pedestrian Power for Street Lights | Popular Science

So more populated area, greater produced electromagnetic field to wirelessly charge the passing EVs.
.
BTW, that report about the new Yamaha motorcycle was nice, I read that news about a motorcycle running on compressed air as well; thanks.
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:58 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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BTW, that report about the new Yamaha motorcycle was nice, I read that news about a motorcycle running on compressed air as well; thanks.
I prefer to keep this thread about the cars, but that report on a compressed air motorcycle seems really cool. I was thinking what if we could apply some further methods on that motorcycle? I mean the below list might improve it:
1. The grid power: yes
2. The solar power: yes, if we cover the spokes of wheels with solar cells, like these images:
Also, care about the safety of the panels.
3. The bio-force power: yes, use it as a simple bike, for charging, pumping, or propelling
4. The solenoid power: yes
5. The piezoelectric power: yes
6. The thermoelectric & thermoacoustic power: no
7. The hydraulic hybrid: maybe, vertically, not as ordinary as horizontally order
8. The hydraulic shock absorbers: yes, for electricity generating and for pumping the air with the amplitude of 0.4-400 mm for flat roads to off-road conditions. Therefore a 80 kg driver always gives contribution to charge the batteries by vibrating on the seat, or better, pump the tank by his upper body mass, continuously. His efforts are promising if the overall weight of the motorcycle won’t exceed 80 kg itself.
The magnetic leverages (better than mechanical ones) only would allow pump piston to go down while normal driving to gather the assumed 0.4 mm vibrations, just compress the air, not decompress it … if we are determined to extract the compressing contribution from the driver's body when he is riding in a flat road, we have to build the pumping device very delicate, along with exact grades.
such a possibility is absent in the cars, because we expect to have a soft driving while we sit on the interior seats of a car, unlike motorcycle riding …
9. The aerodynamic considerations: no
10. The regenerative brakes: yes, seemingly a little
That would be good if the only electric components of such a motorcycle are dedicated for the small on-board compressors. Those toxic & potentially blast-able batteries should be put aside, just compress the air properly …
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  #49  
Old 12-11-2011, 03:29 AM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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I like the look of that compressed air motor. The low internal friction is very impressive, as is the claimed efficiency. If compressed air motors can achieve a high enough efficiency, it will go some way to overcoming the low energy storage density of the compressed air. However, the seals used in that motor look as though they may suffer some of the same drawbacks as the Sarich orbital engine, seen in the lower image, here. These problems included wear, lubrication and overheating problems. The lack of combustion heat, and rolling, rather than sliding, motion of the rotor may prevent these from being a problem, but I will be curious to find out how it holds up in long term use.

The efficiency of the charging method is worth worrying about. Car engines, running on fossil fuels, are typically no more than 40% efficient, while electric can be 80% efficient, and this is one of the great advantages of electric power. If the charging method loses 50% of the electricity, the overall efficiency of electric becomes equal to, or worse than, internal combustion. Only if most or all of the electricity could come from renewable sources, would this type of charging be environmentally beneficial. Initially, at least, some or most of this electricity is likely to come from fossil sources, and I am not sure if the use of inductive charging to increase public acceptance of electric powered cars would be beneficial, or detrimental overall. Perhaps it would be worth it, just to get more electric cars on the road.

I had a thought. While we have discussed the use of solenoids or turbines to extract energy from suspension movements, and that this can be applied to bicycles as well as cars, I think there is one particular application that is best suited to bicycles. Suspension seat posts are available for bicycles, to improve ride comfort, and these could be used to generate power in the same way as a telescopic suspension fork or shock absorber could be. However, it may also be possible to replace the padding within a seat with a fluid reservoir, that is attached to a small sprung piston by a tube. In between the reservoir and the sprung piston, a small turbine could be placed. The changes in load, both from bumps in the road, and any bounce generated from pedalling, would drive the fluid back and forth through the turbine, in and out of the piston, generating electricity, or pumping air. The same could be used in a car, but while it would generate little power on a smooth road, at constant speed, the pedalling motion of a bicycle would mean that it could generate power, even at a stead cruise on a smooth road. I am trying now to imagine if the same principle could be applied to the tyres - that is, filling them with a less compressible fluid, and using deformations and impacts to drive a turbine, mounted somewhere in the wheel.
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2011, 01:15 AM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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Here is another interesting possibility. Both Michelin and Bridgestone have developed prototype airless tyres. Both use fine spoke-like elements which flex over bumps. I cannot help wondering if the entire shock-absorbing structure could be made out of a piezo electric material. In the case of the Bridgestone prototype, the flexible structure is made out of a thermoplastic resin, so material strength does not seem to be a problem, and crash safety would not be a consideration, as it is in the structure of the car platform. Therefore, the efficient piezo materials may not need such outstanding structural properties, to be used in this application. On the downside, recovery of energy from deformations in the wheel would have to increase rolling resistance, probably overcoming any economy gains. This could be avoided if deformations from impacts and bumps could be separated from rolling deformations, and energy only recovered where it would otherwise be wasted.
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  #51  
Old 12-18-2011, 01:09 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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… These problems included wear, lubrication and overheating problems.
I have no comment about the other problems for now, but I ran into a cool solution for the overheating problem lately. It seems odd, but I think that might be possible to apply a cooling mechanism for the compressed-air tank of this motorcycle, like the pot-in-pot refrigerator, invented by a Nigerian person:

A Improves Lives in Nigeria | Global Envision
Pot-in-pot refrigerator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rolex Awards for Enterprise > Mohammed Bah Abba > The Project
A Refrigerator that Runs Without Electricity Permaculture Research Institute
A Refrigerator that Runs Without Electricity | Use Celsias.com - reduce global Celsius

… when the vehicle moves, the tank is subjected to the flow of wind, so my motto again: Why don't we take this as an advantage?
Quote:
and I am not sure if the use of inductive charging to increase public acceptance of electric powered cars would be beneficial, or detrimental overall. Perhaps it would be worth it, just to get more electric cars on the road.
IMO, we need to test this item. If people would accept it, we'd proceed, otherwise, one should consider other green methods. To gain public acceptance, we need creativity, e.g., something like this clip:
Quote:
I had a thought. While we have discussed the use of solenoids or turbines to extract energy from suspension movements, and that this can be applied to bicycles as well as cars, I think there is one particular application that is best suited to bicycles. Suspension seat posts are available for bicycles, to improve ride comfort, and these could be used to generate power in the same way as a telescopic suspension fork or shock absorber could be. However, it may also be possible to replace the padding within a seat with a fluid reservoir, that is attached to a small sprung piston by a tube. In between the reservoir and the sprung piston, a small turbine could be placed. The changes in load, both from bumps in the road, and any bounce generated from pedalling, would drive the fluid back and forth through the turbine, in and out of the piston, generating electricity, or pumping air. The same could be used in a car, but while it would generate little power on a smooth road, at constant speed, the pedalling motion of a bicycle would mean that it could generate power, even at a stead cruise on a smooth road.
Your thought sounds proper. I can imagine three methods to make power in this situation: 1. The piezoelectric power. 2. The hybrid hydraulic power. (by a fluid reservoir as you pointed). 3. (similar to) The hydraulic shock absorbers power.
One needs to verify which of them are more efficient, more green-based; i.e., environment-friendly regarding the process of manufacturing and next impacts, and more economical. Maybe a combination of all would be the best decision.
.
P.S: About the airless tires, I've expressed my opinion in the paper, see the pages 35, 36, and figures 39, 40, 42, and reference [120]. However, I'll try to go more into the necessary details in the next post, in reply to your last post.
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  #52  
Old 03-28-2012, 05:01 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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IMHO, the plan has contained the basic points already. Also, in case of necessity of long length for the body and chassis, I tend to consider a six wheel concept for the car.

Related links: 1, 2, 3

If one insists to design a 7-seated car, regarding three methods of gaining the electricity from the wheels, one ought to seriously think about a six-wheel drive.

After reading news in a magazine, I thought that would be useful to do a few changes on the wheels. I mean this news:
How It Works: Self-Inflating Tire - Popular Mechanics
I'll explain my idea in the next post.
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  #53  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:58 PM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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The single most important reason for a vehicle to have three or more axles is the distribution of load. In order to avoid damage to a road surface, the pressure below a tyre must be limited. For heavy vehicles, this is achieved by spreading their weight over more than the usual four tyres. This can also help off-road vehicles, where the reduced axle load can reduce the chance of sinking on a soft surface, and the extra tyres may improve stability and drive, by having more points of contact with the ground. In the case of your stretched Hummer example, though, I think it may have been for cosmetic, more than for practical reasons.

I do not expect the extra axle and tyres to do anything good for economy. Apart from the weight and drag of the extra tyres, there is also the problem of turning corners. A single axle, with fixed-direction wheels, can rotate quite freely, as the wheels can spin at different speeds. Two such axles cannot, as rotation will require one or both axles to move sideways. It is like trying to pull a car around a corner, without turning the steering wheels. If the vehicle has to routinely turn corners, energy will be lost to dragging the tyres sideways across the road surface. It also means that tyre life is shortened. This is not a problem for large trucks, which need the extra axles, and which spend most of their time travelling in straight lines. For a passenger vehicle, it would increase energy requirements and losses, and it would increase the purchase and operating costs of the vehicle. Two of the axles can be given steerable wheels, but that further increases cost and weight.

It is possible that three or more axles could recover more energy, but only if the energy recovery system that is used is unable to fully exploit the force generated by a single axle. The energy that is available for recovery is determined by the force applied and the distance travelled. If the force generated by a single axle is too large for an energy recovery system to exploit, it may waste a proportion of the available energy. With twin axles, the force on each axle is about half that on a single axle, while the distance travelled is unchanged, as the bumps will remain the same size. This would benefit an energy recovery system that can only exploit limited forces, perhaps like the linear electric motor. Another benefit of this is that the ride would become smoother. Each time that a wheel strikes a bump, it would transmit only about half as much force to car, resulting in less shock to the passengers. I notice this in particular on three-axle buses, when they strike speed bumps.

I would still expect the overall energy use to be worse, even in the best case, due to the greater losses of the extra axle. A seven-seat vehicle does not normally require three axles. A 19-seat minibus requires only two axles, and adapting such a minibus to have 7 or 9 seats would allow enormous amounts of space and comfort for the occupants. I would expect that the addition of an extra axle to such a vehicle would only result in lower efficiency, even with extra energy recovery.

The six wheel drive may be of benefit to an off-roader that is likely to carry heavy loads, such as certain military vehicles, but even in this case, three axles are not always necessary. The
weighs 12 tonnes, and has only two axles, for example. I expect that a road-going vehicle with three axles and six-wheel drive would be heavy, expensive, and have terrible energy use that would not be completely remedied by energy recovery.

The self-inflating tyre seems like a clever idea. The possible improvement to efficiency may be only a few per cent, but it would allow the tyre pressure almost to take care of itself. I see a lot of cars which clearly do not have properly set tyre pressures, so this would improve safety as well as economy. I like more the idea of the airless tyre/wheel combinations, but it will take time to determine whether these are safe, affordable and beneficial.
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  #54  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:10 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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OK, here is the revised plan. After reading the pages 35, 36, and figures 39, 40, 42, and reference [120] in the file, one finds out the contribution of the wheels is important to gain power for the car. Although, they have their own benefits and drawbacks:
Quote:
Potential benefits of the Tweel include the obvious safety and convenience of never having flat tires. Eventually, it may be able to outperform a pneumatic tire since it can be designed to have high lateral strength for better handling without a loss in comfort since the design of the spokes allows the vertical and lateral stiffness to be tuned independently. The tread patterns may incorporate holes in the design thus eliminating or significantly reducing aquaplaning. Michelin expects the tread to last two to three times as long as a conventional tire.[2] Because only the tread around the circumference would be disposed of when worn as opposed to a whole tire, the environmental impact should be less.
The Tweel does have several flaws, however, the worst being vibration. Above 50 mph (80 km/h), the Tweel vibrates considerably, which in itself is a problem that also gives rise to undesired noise and heat. A fast-moving Tweel is unpleasantly loud[3] and produces 5 percent more friction compared to a radial tire.[2]
Therefore, the initial design of the desired power-generating wheels could be given as this figure:


The dark blue bands represent piezoelectric rods, the olive green bands represent the solenoid tubes, and the orange-colored bands represent the hydraulic shock absorbers.
The empty space between the bands can be filled by honeycomb-shaped polyurethane spokes to absorb shock and withstand gouging rocks and broken glass without getting a flat.
However, in addition to drawbacks of the tweels quoted above, we meet new drawbacks for this scenario. Firstly, the piezoelectric materials have a limited useful lifetime. As it was mentioned in an article linked in the post #47, the invention is in the final rounds of testing, not least because these paving stones will need to withstand up to eight million footsteps in their lifetime. This is a severe challenge if we calculate the number of hits that a piezorod-equipped wheel would experience during a mileage. Secondly, if we adopt a non-magnetic mechanism to control the sliding magnets inside the solenoids – mechanical solutions definitely – that would cause depreciation of the involved elements. Thirdly, the fluid inside the hydraulic shock absorbers might bring troubles for the blades of the turbines in this situation, unless the nanotechnology would help it. Fourthly, these three methods of power-generating might reduce the toughness of the wheel and lessen the safety. Thus, because of the four reasons listed above, the tweel's hub can be connected to telescopic or accordion handles. They might go back and forth hydraulically like jacking up. Likewise due to driver's decision or car's central computer decision, these handles can be opened to connect the hub to the outer rim. The two reasons of this decision can be letting the power-generating elements to rest for a while, and to make the wheel to act tougher when passing a stony path. See these figures:




At last, to have a soft driving and to avoid vibration, noise, heat and other unpleasant items in a fast-moving tweel, we need to integrate the previous plan with the new achievement of the Goodyear tire:
==>

It seems this new idea is not in contrary with the power-generating elements, it gives them less efficiency by providing less pressure on them, but more lifetime for them at the same time. So all the stories of the electricity harvesting can be started from below this narrow layer of air.
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  #55  
Old 04-20-2012, 02:06 AM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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Here is an interesting thought. A piezo material not only can generate electricity when it is deformed. It will also deform if electricity is applied to it. Imagine a tyre-wheel unit, such as the Bridgestone design, with spokes constructed completely from a piezo material. Applying a voltage to the spokes, in a carefully co-ordinated way, could result in the entire wheel deforming. This deformation could be designed and controlled so that the contact between the tyre and the road is behind the wheel hub. The natural consequence of this would be for the wheel to roll forward. Re-configuring the voltages continuously would ensure that this state of imbalance is maintained, and the car would continue to slowly accelerate. I do not know how much thrust could be generated by this method, but it has the attraction that it would allow a car to be propelled without needing a separate motor to drive the wheels. The wheels would drive themselves. This would be similar to designs in which the electric motor is mounted inside the wheel, but hopefully lighter. As it would be a single piece, it may be made in a single process.

The potential of this method will certainly be limited by the possible power density and efficiency of the available piezo materials, and by the amount of imbalance and thrust that could be generated by deforming the wheels, so I doubt that it could be made viable in the near future. However, it would allow the manufacture of cars with no separate motor, no drive shafts, no gear box, and no separate moving parts, apart from the wheels themselves. The car could have a drivetrain consisting of a battery, a control box, and the wheels. I imagine that it would be extremely cheap to manufacture, assuming that the piezo materials are not too expensive. Clever electronic management would also allow the recovery of energy over bumps, and during gentle deceleration. Modifications could be made to the ride height, by adjusting the positions of the hubs within the wheels. The wheels could be made to adapt their shape closely to the surface they are driving over, and suspension adjustment could be performed by re-programming the wheel control electronics. This design might even avoid the whining noise of an electric motor, making it potentially quieter than any other drive system.

I don't know whether a system like this could ever be made practical by advances in materials technology. Research is already being conducted on related systems, such as artificial muscles and shape-memory alloys, as well as piezo materials. It would be a very neat way of applying the results.
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  #56  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:50 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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The single most important reason for a vehicle to have three or more axles is the distribution of load.
In my plan, the reason is the role of wheels to generate power. However, we return to the same old point again: This new configuration has to offset its additional weight.
Quote:
In the case of your stretched Hummer example, though, I think it may have been for cosmetic, more than for practical reasons.
That is not quite correct. I considered the idea of 6-wheeled car to use the two (or one!) wheels just in case. This brings more complexity to the car, but it could reduce a part of complexity on the other hand. Since this car is supposed to use multiple propulsions, that might be proper to appropriate separate propulsion sources to these two extra wheels, for example the hydraulic hybrid or flywheel systems.
The disadvantages that you mentioned are correct for conventional cars, but we might be able to act differently for this hybrid car. For instance, I was thinking that would be effective to make those extra two wheels by the lightest possible materials which cannot bear the weight of car in usual situation. Four main wheels bear the car's weight and we touch those extra wheels on the road, if and only if they could give considerable contribution to the prolusion in certain periods. The sources inside those wheels (regenerative braking, solar panels, hydraulic shock absorber spokes, solenoids, piezoelectric materials, thermoelectric materials, …) must overcome their weight.
Quote:
Another benefit of this is that the ride would become smoother. Each time that a wheel strikes a bump, it would transmit only about half as much force to car, resulting in less shock to the passengers. I notice this in particular on three-axle buses, when they strike speed bumps.
Yes. IMO, this idea gives more safety and comfort for this car.
Quote:
I would still expect the overall energy use to be worse, even in the best case, due to the greater losses of the extra axle. A seven-seat vehicle does not normally require three axles. A 19-seat minibus requires only two axles, and adapting such a minibus to have 7 or 9 seats would allow enormous amounts of space and comfort for the occupants. I would expect that the addition of an extra axle to such a vehicle would only result in lower efficiency, even with extra energy recovery.
I don't insist on the 6-wheeled idea. Although, if one could apply useful materials with low density to build the extra wheels, the problem of their weight would be relaxed. Their other problems are not so serious, regarding their role in propulsion, safety and comfort of this car.
Remember the function of wheels in an airplane. They cause consuming more fuel, but they are necessary for the airplanes. I know this isn't a perfect example, but I just want to say the idea of 6-wheels has such potentials. This could be beneficial for the economy, not economy of a car, but economy of a country! I mean regarding one critique to the electric vehicles, stating they have less moving parts compared to ICE cars, and this might cause less jobs for the people in the automobile industry, I observe my plan uses many moving elements and would need proper experts in mechanics, electronics, etc to produce and repair such a car.
Quote:
Here is an interesting thought.
Your thought is clever and interesting. However, I doubt the design of spokes constructed completely from a piezo material. If you remove the adverb "completely", that would be better. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. I think the right answer to the question who knows?, is the materials engineers should know. The branch that they research, for propelling my proposed car, is as important as the function of muscles to propel a human body.

Last edited by mansouryar; 04-23-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-23-2012, 02:07 PM
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drakkie drakkie is offline
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As my teachers always learned me and which I only really understand now I actually work at one of the biggest Heavy-Duty vehicles manufacturer in the world; in any engineering company they don't give a shit about beautiful talks and stuff. They want to see the results of the research presented in like 10 seconds time. Unless I see any kind of real thing; a proof of concept, model, prototype or something with better thinking, based on actual calculations I would never buy the story. And in the minute I spent so far reading this thread I see many wild plans, with little reality. Sorry if I dissapoint you or anything, I don't mean to burst your bubble, it's just not my piece of cake so far.

Last edited by drakkie; 04-23-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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  #58  
Old 04-24-2012, 12:26 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Nobody can deny the value of theory. The most expensive experiment in the world –
– is trying to find a hypothetical particle. They are not sure about its existence, but they are spending billions of bucks to verify the related theory.
If I had had enough budget and facilities to realize my plan, I wouldn't bring it up online. My background is not about cars and my present job has nothing to do with cars. I am in this forum because: 1) To register my ideas in a public place. Recently, my plan can also be reached from this link: Intellectual Archive. Online/offline repository for works in science and art
I want people to know about them and I think this might help the environment. 2) To exchange ideas (with MilesR). 3) I hope a member of a related company would find this plan useful and contact me to build it. Even I'm pleased this would be realized without me. Fortunately my job is not about the cars and I don't have a driving license too!
I understand actual experiments or presenting a prototype is way better than describing a concept; but until that day of having enough funding by me or someone else to this end, I'll keep theorizing about the plan. However, the only alternative is simulating it by numerical approximations in a powerful computer, but I don't have access to the related softwares and I don't know how to work with them. That's great if the calculations could be rendered in graphical shapes, but the reality is very more complicated than that.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:47 AM
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First of all, dreamers are also quite important, but with dreamers you cannot build anything. Secondly I would be careful about what you publish online. You never know where it might end up, because of someone stealing it. I'll try and read through your entire paper soon, i'll give you a review of it soon.

And if you want to get things done, it doesn't need to cost much money. Be inventive! Find the right people around you to help you accomplish it or do it yourself! If you write a really well planned approach you should be able to do anything. Usually I spend more time on writing this, than I do on finding the actual problems/solutions. If you stick to the plan, only adjust when you find a problem and make sure the results and products described in it are delivered on time/ of right quality /with measurable, reproducable results you will be the winner

Last edited by drakkie; 04-24-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:49 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Karaj
Quote:
Originally Posted by mansouryar View Post
However, the question is, can we consider that process feasible or economical? The output of the said nanogenerator is desperately low:
Five nanogenerators stacked together produce about 1 micro Ampere output current at 3 volts — about the same voltage generated by two regular AA batteries (about 1.5 volts each).
So we'd require hundreds of millions of them to gain the power in the magnitudes of kilowatts. The situation could be improved if the efficiency of them would be more, like the Rectangular four-quadrant motors with high power density (2.5 watt/cm3) and speed ranging from 10 nm/s to 800 mm/s.; to result in thousands of them for kilowatts powers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mansouryar View Post
Maybe someday, the appropriate components (especially body) for the piezoelectric power would be woven from those desired nanofibers and cannabis! hey, both of them are organic!
Related links on this weird idea:
Canada to Launch Cannabis Kestrel
Kestrel, the Cannabis Car - autoevolution
Canada has high hopes for Kestrel cannabis car
An Electric Car Made from Hemp | Audubon Magazine Blog
Kestrel: The Electric Car With Body Made From Cannabis | The Green Optimistic
If we could weave hundreds of millions of piezo strings with cannabis strings to shape the body, chassis, and other possible compartments, we could get electricity in kilowatt magnitudes, in principle.
However, we need to create a proper temperature for the piezo strings, because those cannot withstand high temperatures (>80°C) due to this link:
http://www.meas-spec.com/product/t_product.aspx?id=2484
That temperature situation would be better for the batteries as well.
Also, this webpage was inspiring to me:
Constructing an Under Saddle Transducer
Mostly, on the process of connecting the piezo materials to other parts.
Other interesting and related pages:
http://www.meas-spec.com/piezo-film-sensors.aspx
http://www.meas-spec.com/piezo-film-...ezo-cable.aspx
Quote:
Originally Posted by mansouryar View Post
This program can be performed horizontally/longitudinally:(The arrow represents a wire connecting the piezoelectric films together)
First: The process of inserting the films between two layers of a segment of the chassis.

Second: The process is complete.

Third: The mentioned segment could have got more than two layers.

A similar process in a vertical/latitudinal manner:
First: Incomplete, to be illustrated better.

Second: The process is done.

*
There are also other sources:
http://www.piezo.com/
There is more promising data about the approach of weaving:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, …
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clean personal car, compressed-air propulsion, electric vehicle, green car, hybrid vehicle


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