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  #31  
Old 06-01-2010, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
It looks as though Citroen might have lost their nerve...again.

May I present the new C4.
Oh I don't know, it's slightly better than the last 5-door C4..
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  #32  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
having the same front and some parts of the hatch does mot really make it look like a ZX, but I have to admit that I was not aware that the ZX was still in production with that shape. But it is a popluar taxi in China. (and sold nowhere else)
To me it has similar proportions as well.
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  #33  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
To me it has similar proportions as well.
I read a Dutch forum this morning and it seems to have the same proportions as every other 5 door hatchback.

But let's agree that this car is not the the future... today and see how we can get back on topic.

The Clarity was another good starting point.
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  #34  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:49 AM
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it seems that the future Porsche was just posted here

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...eo-thread.html
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  #35  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
I thought that's what I said...
i suppose so, I just expounded on it.
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Whereas the Aptera is genuinely futuristic. We'll see if it reaches mass production, though. No comments on it's design?
i don't see the aptera as a real answer to this question. it is a lot like the T-Rex and Ecomobile, and even the can-am spyder. they are niche products that appeal to a very small market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
How about the Honda FCX Clarity? Not because James May reviewed it and Clarkson actually liked it, but because it actually seems reasonable as long as you can get around the hydrogen production issue.

And unlike Tesla, Honda is an actual established company that does not deal in vaporware. That's my major issue with Tesla.
re. the tesla vs honda thing. i have actually seen teslas out in the wild. a bunch of them actually. i have never seen an FCX Clarity, car show or otherwise. so yeah there is the honda funding, but they haven't exactly done much to extend the technology. and that is why tesla will be successful, everyone has electricity.

i think the DS3 and DS4 look very good, and i think are good examples for the futuristic thing.
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  #36  
Old 06-01-2010, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cmcpokey View Post
i suppose so, I just expounded on it.


i don't see the aptera as a real answer to this question. it is a lot like the T-Rex and Ecomobile, and even the can-am spyder. they are niche products that appeal to a very small market.




re. the tesla vs honda thing. i have actually seen teslas out in the wild. a bunch of them actually. i have never seen an FCX Clarity, car show or otherwise. so yeah there is the honda funding, but they haven't exactly done much to extend the technology. and that is why tesla will be successful, everyone has electricity.

i think the DS3 and DS4 look very good, and i think are good examples for the futuristic thing.
Well the FCX Clarity was a proof of concept, it's not a real production car. Honda even said that they're only leasing a few (less than 500 I think) out for a limited time and taking them back after the lease is over. It's great that the technology exists and does not rely on our electricity production. I believe for those who have ordered the FCX, there is a natural gas refueling station that goes in your garage so you can produce your hydrogen. Natural gas is a fossil fuel, but at least it's not variable in cleanliness as electricity production is- it can vary from nuclear produced to coal produced.

My major issue with electric cars is that you have no idea how your electricity is produced. Most probably though with coal. So how clean exactly is your car now? Not very.

I have seen about two Tesla roadsters. It's a good proof of concept too, but way too expensive. Unless the Model S is relatively cheap and efficient, I don't see Tesla doing well.
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  #37  
Old 06-01-2010, 06:40 PM
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I would say the 458 merits a mention. It looks ahead of it's time to me I think - maybe only a little ahead of it's time, but still in the future.
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  #38  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcpokey View Post
re. the tesla vs honda thing. i have actually seen teslas out in the wild. a bunch of them actually. i have never seen an FCX Clarity, car show or otherwise. so yeah there is the honda funding, but they haven't exactly done much to extend the technology. and that is why tesla will be successful, everyone has electricity.
They have electricity, but not enough (especially in CA, rolling brownouts are fun.) To power our cars with electricity instead of gas would require as big a revampage of our power system as switching to hydrogen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
My major issue with electric cars is that you have no idea how your electricity is produced. Most probably though with coal. So how clean exactly is your car now? Not very.

I have seen about two Tesla roadsters. It's a good proof of concept too, but way too expensive. Unless the Model S is relatively cheap and efficient, I don't see Tesla doing well.
70%+ is actually from oil burning plants. They're very effecient and clean compared to cars because you can incorporate tech into them that you can't into cars, but still. And nuclear will never really catch on here because we don't (can't actually due to some laws which were designed to stamp out nuclear power here) use any modern techniques in our plants, such as they do in europe and china.

The Tesla Roadster was a niche vehicle. They still haven't proven they can build anything useful.

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I would say the 458 merits a mention. It looks ahead of it's time to me I think - maybe only a little ahead of it's time, but still in the future.
Technology wise, too, it has some cool stuff. But it is small market.

I think part of the problem is that when we were obsessed with a futuristic look we just car about looks, not function. Since that look rarely is functional, we've been moving away from it.
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  #39  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cmcpokey View Post
i don't see the aptera as a real answer to this question. it is a lot like the T-Rex and Ecomobile, and even the can-am spyder. they are niche products that appeal to a very small market.

i think the DS3 and DS4 look very good, and i think are good examples for the futuristic thing.
Your three examples are all motorcycle variants that meet none of the "futuristic" criteria. Other than 2 of them being trikes there's no comparison. It may not appeal to you but the Aptera is a 3-wheeled car: totally enclosed cockpit, relatively normal controls, meets crash requirements, etc. It's potential is hampered by that most important development issue, funding. We'll see.

Citroen's DS series may well be an impressive platform but otherwise is just another rounded box with wheels. It isn't futuristic, even in the way the original DS was (and is).
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Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
Well the FCX Clarity was a proof of concept, it's not a real production car. My major issue with electric cars is that you have no idea how your electricity is produced. Most probably though with coal. So how clean exactly is your car now? Not very.

Unless the Model S is relatively cheap and efficient, I don't see Tesla doing well.
The Tesla Sedan is supposedly targeted at $40,000 so would be accessible, we'll have to wait and see if Toyota's piggy bank makes it a production reality. As to electricity, there's more at stake for producers: an important issue will be standardized packs, readily available at fuel stations that fit any electric/hybrid. Remember: energy companies only exist as the controls of distribution. Yes, to some degree it simply moves the carbon emissions to another source. That's not entirely a bad thing, though.

Honda's effort looks futuristic, uses some neat technology, and could easily be built in quantity. It's failure is it's 3500lb weight.
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Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
I would say the 458 merits a mention. It looks ahead of it's time to me I think - maybe only a little ahead of it's time, but still in the future.
Do you mean the Ferrari? Not futuristic in any way, just the most recent means of seperating the wealthy from $$$.
Sorry, too small to have any impact.
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Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
They have electricity, but not enough (especially in CA, rolling brownouts are fun.) To power our cars with electricity instead of gas would require as big a revampage of our power system as switching to hydrogen.

70%+ is actually from oil burning plants. And nuclear will never really catch on here because we don't (can't actually due to some laws which were designed to stamp out nuclear power here) use any modern techniques in our plants, such as they do in europe and china.

The Tesla Roadster was (is) a niche vehicle. They still haven't proven they can build anything useful.

I think part of the problem is that when we were obsessed with a futuristic look we just car about looks, not function. Since that look rarely is functional, we've been moving away from it.
Our power grid will require serious commitment to meet our needs. The recent nuclear summit was in part to secure materials that will be utilized by reactors; expect a small boom in building them during the next decade. Likewise wind farms. Natural gas fuels our local utility, and I'm quite pleased to have just installed a whole-house 10kW solar array on my home. Fed and state rebates covered 85% of the cost, our investment will pay for itself in as little as 4 years. Starting last week we sell electricity back to the grid. Germany is way ahead of us on composite power grids, we better get busy. Imagine the impact of every home in the country producing 2kW. Coal provides nearly 49% of our electricity but that number continues to drop; a decade ago it was about 58%. Slow progress that can be accelerated if there is political will. The BP disaster/fiasco is doing pretty well at changing people's minds about our energy use and sources.

Tesla's roadster is a niche vehicle... the sedan is more. But again, we'll see. And you're right about our notion of futurism often being something visual, rather than technological. Even when functional progress is provided the public can reject it, as they have so many things. Humans are reluctant to embrace newness but ultimately we'll have to, just as we always have. It has happened with every technological advance of the past 150 years and will continue.
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  #40  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:30 PM
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...
Out of curiosity where did you get the coal numbers? When I get a chance I'm going to go dig up the article I read that put oil burning plants as the vast majority and I was wondering if it's a terminology issue, what you consider "power useage" sort of thing, that explains the discrepancy.
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  #41  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:40 PM
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  #42  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:41 PM
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Do you mean the Ferrari? Not futuristic in any way, just the most recent means of seperating the wealthy from $$$.
Sorry, too small to have any impact.
Yes the Ferrari.

You don't think that from purely a design perspective that it's futuristic? As I said, not exceptionally futuristic, but ahead of the curve by at least a bit.

I didn't think that we were discussing the impact of the design here. I thought we were just assessing the design itself - sure, as you and I both realize, the Ferrari is a niche car, and maybe it is "too small to have an impact," but that wasn't the question raised by pokey.
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  #43  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:46 PM
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I'm not even too sure it's actually too small to have an impact. Yeah, the car itself isn't going to reach many people, but it's been seen time and time again that the more exclusive cars influence styling on more accessible cars.
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  #44  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:02 PM
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I'm not even too sure it's actually too small to have an impact. Yeah, the car itself isn't going to reach many people, but it's been seen time and time again that the more exclusive cars influence styling on more accessible cars.
That's another thing I was thinking - trickle down. I mean, high highfalutin cars in the past surely had impact on lesser cars in the following years, no?

What about the young artist that grows up idolizing it and one day it influences his/her design of a new car when he/she becomes a designer?
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  #45  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:56 PM
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What about the young artist that grows up idolizing it and one day it influences his/her design of a new car when he/she becomes a designer?
Indeed, like the Porsche 928 and the Sierra XR4i. But most of the times, it's not the futuristics cars that influence the design, but rather contemporary cars that are ackonwledged as beautiful.
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