Go to Ultimatecarpage.com

Go Back   Ultimatecarpage.com forums > Automotive forums > Racing forums


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-19-2005, 01:30 PM
dydzi's Avatar
dydzi dydzi is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,450
Warsaw
Send a message via MSN to dydzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaigra
blue flags are to tell backmarkers they are about to be lapped
AND the drivers who exit pits and start their lap on the track. most of the tracks has got blue lights in the end of the pits instead of the referee standing then. schumi didn't have any idea that barichello was speeding 350 km/h just behind him.
__________________
12 cylinders or walk!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-19-2005, 02:32 PM
Bob's Avatar
Bob Bob is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,218
Pennsylvania, USA
First time in over a year that I'm glad Ferrari doesn't use Michelins. Hopefully this won't kill Formula 1 in America. Strange this year was supposed to be exciting and end the monotonous Ferrari dominance, but now we don't even know if there will be a race in America next year.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-19-2005, 02:37 PM
ballafureal's Avatar
ballafureal ballafureal is offline
Novice
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 38
This was the best race I have ever seen. I just came back from it like half an hour ago, and was very disappointed. They say the problem was that when they go into turn thirteen they have too much speed, and Michelin said the only way to fix the problem is to reduce the speed, build a chicane. Only Ferrari didn't agree with that plan. That would kinda suck, because then we'd be seeing these cars that are supposed to go 200 odd miles going only in the 100s. Anyways, it was kinda scary being there cause all of these drunks were getting all mad.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-19-2005, 02:41 PM
aNOBLEman's Avatar
aNOBLEman aNOBLEman is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,499
Purdue, Indiana
Send a message via AIM to aNOBLEman
Quote:
Thirdly, Americans really have no freaking respect (no surprise there). It's disgusting seeing them throw garbage onto the track. I understand they paid a lot of money and were really looking forward to a good race but don't take it on the drivers who did absolutely nothing. They should be thanking those 6 drivers that at least they had something to look at.
Actually we could've just watched the support races and left. Also the announcers were making it sound like the drivers were at fault for not racing. One comment I remember was "These are the drivers that came to work today" and some other stuff like that. Also the course shouldn't be changed as that would make the track just like any other on the F1 circuit.

Also, I think that it would have been hilarious if Shumi and Rubens would have taken each other out...that would have made the race interesting with the Jordans and Minardis going for podiums.

Also don't put all Americans into one steriotype. I could say the same thing about you.

Last edited by aNOBLEman; 06-19-2005 at 02:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-19-2005, 02:46 PM
Coventrysucks's Avatar
Coventrysucks Coventrysucks is offline
'64
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,273
UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve87
this is proof that european racing will shit on america whenever they can.
Wow. That is just... stupid. Really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMPLETON
risk being injured or killed.
So is that.

If it was just about risking injury and death why have their been so many things brought into the sport to reduce the chance of injury and death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat77
Bernie Eccelstone decided that his precious rules were more important than respecting the fans
Ecclestone doesn't make the rules, so why are you blaming him?

He managed to convince all the Michelin teams to actually go onto the grid at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMPLETON
Steve Matchett on Speed made a good point on speed that if problems had happenned to the Bridgestones, there would be very little sympathy for Ferrari.
If it had just been Toyota there wouldn't have been much sympathy.
Or if it had been just McLaren, or Williams, or Minardi...

When 14/20 cars cannot race because of a problem, however, then there is a very serious problem that needs to be addressed if the race is to continue in any meaningful way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6'bore
the two tyre failures in open practice.
Eleven tyre failures in open practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf03
Michelin is stupid or should I say the teams that chickened out are stupid. Danger is part of the sport, you have to take risks. No I'm not saying the drivers should be killed but they are getting paid millions of dollars to race. Now, Michelin said there might be problems that the tires would not be able to last for the whole race, so then if the team sees that there are major cracks in the tires, they are allowed to change them. That's what should have been done. Race, take precation, maybe not push so hard and change tires at least once or preferably twice.
Ralph Schumacher could easily have been paralysed last year.

No ammount of millions would really make up for that.

F1 Drivers get paid at the same level as football, baseball and basketball players, - where is the risk there? A broken ankle?

The ammount of money more reflects the ammount of time that the job takes up. The drivers get very little time off. If they aren't racing they are testing, or doing promotional things, or training.

The two failures that Toyota experienced could not have been forseen.

If that had happened in the race the team would have no forewarning, and the accident could take out other cars.

True there is an element of danger in the sport from unexpected happenings.
Knowing that the tyre will most likely fail, putting drivers, marshalls and spectators in danger is not "risk" is is sheer stupidity.

What would you say if there had been a massive crash in turn 13 taking out 5 drivers, with the ensuing debris killing and injuring spectators?

You would say that Michelin were stupid for even thinking about letting the teams race.

Get a grip on the reality of the situation.

I think that Michelin made a tough decision, that will have very bad ramifications for them, but it was the right one. Risking the deaths of drivers for the sake of "entertainment" would have been unforgivable.

I don't blame the Bridgestone runners for continuing to race - even though it made them look supremely stupid.

I blame the FIA and various echelons of F1 management, and the politics that go with it, for preventing the teams from reaching a sensible solution to the problem.
__________________
Thanks for all the fish
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:18 PM
Wolf03's Avatar
Wolf03 Wolf03 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Originally in Romania, now in Canada
Send a message via MSN to Wolf03 Send a message via Yahoo to Wolf03
Ok, apparently you missed a point. Michelin said the tires could not hold on for the entire race. Obviously it's FIA to blame because they made the new rule that only a set of tires must be used which is stupid but if it would have been like last year where the team could change the tires whenever they wanted, this mess would have been easily avoided.

Yeah it's a safety issue but how are they going to fix the problem now between F1 and Americans? I don't think this would be easily forgotten.

aNOBLEman: "Also don't put all Americans into one steriotype. I could say the same thing about you."

Go ahead, what are you going to say?
__________________
"To control 800 horsepower relying just on arm muscles and foot sensitivity can turn out to be a dangerous exercise."
Michael Schumacher
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:33 PM
aNOBLEman's Avatar
aNOBLEman aNOBLEman is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,499
Purdue, Indiana
Send a message via AIM to aNOBLEman
I could say that Romanians have no respect (no surprise there) and its disgusting when you throw garbage on a race course...but since I'm nice pretend that I'm not really saying that.

Oh, I could also come up with a lot of other things, but I won't say them.

Last edited by aNOBLEman; 06-19-2005 at 06:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:34 PM
Esperante's Avatar
Esperante Esperante is offline
Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,545
Location: Milwaukee
Send a message via AIM to Esperante
Quote:
Originally Posted by aNOBLEman
I could say that Canadians have no respect (no surprise there) and that you have a very bad F1 driver in Jaques...but since I'm nice pretend that I'm not really saying that.
I would too. That was lame.
__________________
TOYNBEE IDEA IN KUBRICK 2001 RESURRECT DEAD ON PLANET JUPITER
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-19-2005, 04:29 PM
Jack_Bauer's Avatar
Jack_Bauer Jack_Bauer is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,161
UK
Send a message via MSN to Jack_Bauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf03
Ok, apparently you missed a point. Michelin said the tires could not hold on for the entire race. Obviously it's FIA to blame because they made the new rule that only a set of tires must be used which is stupid but if it would have been like last year where the team could change the tires whenever they wanted, this mess would have been easily avoided.
I don't think the new tyre regulations have anything to with it. The new tyre regs affect mostly the compound of the rubber on the outside of the tyre (ie much harder compounds this year as opposed to last). The problem with the Michelins this weekend has been in the carcass and sidewalls of the tyres. Apparently Michelin and Bridgestone have different philosophies in the construction of the tyre carcass, and have done for years. Therefore the fundamental difference in the construction of the tyre would've existed last year too. Also, the problem wasn't that the tyres couldn't go a whole race, the problem was that they could've failed AT ANY TIME! Ralf's accident actually occured on his FIRST flying lap on that set of tyres, so being able to change your tyres every 20-30 laps wouldn't really make much difference. Much as I dislike the new rule I don't think it could be blamed for this weekend's farce. It was the fact that Michelin couldn't actually work out what was wrong with their tyres that was the crucial safety concern because the whole situation had become completely unpredictable. You can't just have a punt and hope for the best where people's lives are concerned. Ugly as it was, Michelen had no choice under the circumstances.

I think the best review of the 'race' and the events leading up to it is at www.pitpass.com entitled "F1 RIP". I think that's perhaps a little too extreme to suggest F1's dead just yet, but it raises some interesting points
__________________
uәʞoɹq spɹɐoqʎәʞ ʎɯ
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-19-2005, 05:05 PM
scottie300z's Avatar
scottie300z scottie300z is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,288
Texas
Send a message via AIM to scottie300z
I agree w/ the above for the most part. I still think that if michelin said changing a turn would allow the tires to be safe then the turn should have been changed in order to salvage the race and then michelin be severly punished afterwards. If they just changed the turn the only people who really would have known any difference would be the most loyal fans and they might be upset but not on the same level.

And also, this thread has gotten ugly in places, whats with the american and canadian stuff? Have some maturity.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-19-2005, 05:18 PM
Jack_Bauer's Avatar
Jack_Bauer Jack_Bauer is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,161
UK
Send a message via MSN to Jack_Bauer


Interesting statement from one Mr Tony George of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway....

Quote:
STATEMENT BY INDIANAPOLIS MOTOR SPEEDWAY CEO TONY GEORGE
JUNE 19, 2005

The Indianapolis Motor Speedway shares in the disappointment with the loyal fans of IMS and Formula One that we did not see the exciting race we all anticipated due to circumstances beyond our control.

The FIA, Formula One, the constructors and manufacturers that represent the cars on the starting grid made decisions on an individual basis to limit participation in today's USGP.

We suggest the fans who wish to make their feelings known, contact the following:

Michelin
46, rue du Ressort
63100 Clermont-Ferrand
France
www.michelinsport.com

FIA
8 Place de la Concorde
F-75008 Paris
www.fia.com

Formula One Management
6 Princes Gate
Knightsbridge
London SW7 1QJ
United Kingdom
Hmmm, methinks somebody's gonna be getting an awful lot of hatemail in the next week or so!!!

This spells bad news for the future of F1 at Indianapolis. TG is clearly FAR from happy with the way things have unfolded. Bernie Ecclestone is famous for his silver-tongued business patter and being a master at sweet talking the big-money people into doing things his way, but he's gonna need something of a miracle to get TG back on his side. Bernie's gonna have VERY sore knees after all the grovelling he's gonna have to do this time!
__________________
uәʞoɹq spɹɐoqʎәʞ ʎɯ
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-19-2005, 05:50 PM
Wolf03's Avatar
Wolf03 Wolf03 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Originally in Romania, now in Canada
Send a message via MSN to Wolf03 Send a message via Yahoo to Wolf03
Quote:
Originally Posted by aNOBLEman
I could say that Canadians have no respect (no surprise there) and that you have a very bad F1 driver in Jaques...but since I'm nice pretend that I'm not really saying that.

Oh, I could also come up with a lot of other things, but I won't say them.
I agree.


Why? I'm not Canadian.
__________________
"To control 800 horsepower relying just on arm muscles and foot sensitivity can turn out to be a dangerous exercise."
Michael Schumacher
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-19-2005, 05:55 PM
Bob's Avatar
Bob Bob is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,218
Pennsylvania, USA
If you read the official f1 website www.f1.com, it states there that all the teams, wanted to change the track except Ferrari, it does not say the track would be changed if Ferrari had agreed, but implies that the FIA would not change the track because that would be a violation of the rules. I really don't think any party can be held responsible. Michelin of course didn't know that their tires wouldn't be able to cope with the track conditions, Ferrari had no involvement at all in the incident,and the FIA did what they saw fit to run a reasonably safe race without violating the regulations.

Wolf03 and aNOBLEman- don't stereotype, and if someone does, intentionally or by accident, don't respond with hostility- I thought there was more respect here than that.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-19-2005, 05:58 PM
Wolf03's Avatar
Wolf03 Wolf03 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Originally in Romania, now in Canada
Send a message via MSN to Wolf03 Send a message via Yahoo to Wolf03
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
If you read the official f1 website www.f1.com, it states there that all the teams, wanted to change the track except Ferrari, it does not say the track would be changed if Ferrari had agreed, but implies that the FIA would not change the track because that would be a violation of the rules. I really don't think any party can be held responsible. Michelin of course didn't know that their tires wouldn't be able to cope with the track conditions, Ferrari had no involvement at all in the incident,and the FIA did what they saw fit to run a reasonably safe race without violating the regulations.

Wolf03 and aNOBLEman- don't stereotype, and if someone does, intentionally or by accident, don't respond with hostility- I thought there was more respect here than that.
But Michelin DID know! It was known to the teams 2 days before that Michelin had trouble with the tires but they did nothing up to the absolute last minute.

Sorry about the stereotyping but you have to admit, is it just a coincidence that this is happening in the US?
__________________
"To control 800 horsepower relying just on arm muscles and foot sensitivity can turn out to be a dangerous exercise."
Michael Schumacher
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-19-2005, 06:09 PM
scottie300z's Avatar
scottie300z scottie300z is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,288
Texas
Send a message via AIM to scottie300z
coincidence...yes. Every country has its people who arent that bright or mature. From football(soccer) hooligans to whatever.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Official UCP Map Creation Thread - CLOSED Egg Nog Miscellaneous 70 05-29-2005 12:39 PM
Older drivers are better drivers crisis Miscellaneous 30 01-21-2005 02:11 AM
2004 F1 World Championship Ten Best Drivers & Teams motorsportnerd Racing forums 24 11-02-2004 02:49 AM
BMW drivers get lucky Coventrysucks Miscellaneous 2 05-02-2004 12:44 AM
Who are the top 10 Australasian racing drivers of today and all time? motorsportnerd General Automotive 213 04-30-2004 03:38 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:31 PM.

 

1998 - 2019 Ultimatecarpage.com