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  #61  
Old 11-12-2008, 03:21 PM
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Nelson Piquet Jr. Will continue to be useless as Alonso's teammate...and banish into obscurity half-way through the year....
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  #62  
Old 11-14-2008, 03:22 PM
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I'm really excited about F1 for the first time in a while, if only because sanity somehow won out and proper slicks are being reintroduced. That and the reduced aero should (I hope) bring back some risky overtaking.

Now if they can just sort out the ridiculous policing of the rules and the finances (so that the fans can actually afford racing tickets and most television networks can actually afford the broadcast rights), we might see F1 returning to where it belongs.
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  #63  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuto View Post
I dont know if this has been posted, but here is a prediction of the 2009 cars
Will the 2009 F1 cars be really look like that...

It seems like the FIA wants to go back to the design elements of late-1990's-2003 F1 cars... The front wing has been straightened instead of the usual curved design, etc...

What is the FIA doing to F1???
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  #64  
Old 11-15-2008, 03:43 AM
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I only noticed now that the rear diffuser appears to be significantly larger on the proposed new design than it was up to now. I can't remember who said it exactly, but apparently "ground effects" is the way to go as it increases downforce a lot while not impacting the car behind as much as aero devices on the top of the car, so to speak, would do.

I have absolutely no idea if that's true or not, but if it is I'd say it's a step in the right direction.

Anyone got a more scientific take on it?
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  #65  
Old 11-15-2008, 04:23 AM
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Williams testing a new configuration of front and rear wings.

Pity they are getting rid of all those winglets. I liked the looks of them and I also liked to follow their changes during the season.

Maybe we should already have a 'Silly Season' thread, cause these things don't seem to fit into 'Predictions' one.

BTW, can anyone tell me who's at the wheel?
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File Type: jpg Williams (2008 tests, ...) 2009 aerodynamics.jpg (45.8 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by faksta; 11-15-2008 at 04:30 AM.
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  #66  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faksta View Post
BTW, can anyone tell me who's at the wheel?
I think that's their test driver, Nicolas Hülkenberg

And yes... The 2008 cars look much better than those of 2009...
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  #67  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Heart View Post
Will the 2009 F1 cars be really look like that...

It seems like the FIA wants to go back to the design elements of late-1990's-2003 F1 cars... The front wing has been straightened instead of the usual curved design, etc...

What is the FIA doing to F1???
They'll be many variations, but the wing proportions are correct. What nobody's seen yet however is the basic design with a clean upper body and larger sidepods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooper View Post
I only noticed now that the rear diffuser appears to be significantly larger on the proposed new design than it was up to now.
Overall it looks bigger, but the central section isnt as tall. Overall, its not as powerful as the outgoing designs.

Quote:
I can't remember who said it exactly, but apparently "ground effects" is the way to go as it increases downforce a lot while not impacting the car behind as much as aero devices on the top of the car, so to speak, would do.

I have absolutely no idea if that's true or not, but if it is I'd say it's a step in the right direction.

Anyone got a more scientific take on it?
Quite a few people believe ground effects provide better racing than upper body aero, but i'm not 100% sure of the reasons myself. I believe by taking the airflow from so close to the ground theres very little effect from drag and wake structures etc. 2005-2008 spec front wings for instance are 200mm from the ground, exept for the central section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faksta View Post
BTW, can anyone tell me who's at the wheel?
Jonathan Kennard. It was only a shakedown test.
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  #68  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho View Post
They'll be many variations, but the wing proportions are correct. What nobody's seen yet however is the basic design with a clean upper body and larger sidepods.

Yes... I know there will be variations because there are different teams...

Actually, making the cars look cleaner made the aesthetics not as good as those of 2008...

Now I know another purpose of those winglets apart from additional performance... They are there to make the car look better...
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  #69  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:50 AM
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You dont know what its done to the aesthetics because you havent seen a proper 2009 car yet though. The Ferrari photoshop still looks heavily influenced by the F2008 and the Williams with 2009 wings is essentially only that.
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  #70  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:54 AM
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Yeah... My mistake again...

A close observation of the picture of the williams F1 car changes my mind... I could still see a lot of winglets similar to that of the 2008 car (which means, that may still not be the 2009 car).

Sorry about that...
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  #71  
Old 11-15-2008, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faksta View Post
Pity they are getting rid of all those winglets. I liked the looks of them and I also liked to follow their changes during the season.
I'll miss that a lot as well actually...

But, if the reduction in aero devices means better racing (I'm really hoping that will be the case), I'll be willing to do without them.
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  #72  
Old 11-15-2008, 06:07 AM
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I guess you're right there Kooper...

I really like the looks of those winglets, but if a better racing will be the result of removing them... I would like the winglets to be removed...
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  #73  
Old 11-15-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho View Post
Quite a few people believe ground effects provide better racing than upper body aero, but i'm not 100% sure of the reasons myself. I believe by taking the airflow from so close to the ground theres very little effect from drag and wake structures etc. 2005-2008 spec front wings for instance are 200mm from the ground, exept for the central section.
The "ground effect" is based on the Venturi effect. it's point is increase the kinetic energy of a fluid (air, in this case) trough a tunnel (or a semi-tunnel under the car in this case) by lowering the pressure energy of the fluid. so that means the air is going faster while under the car, and the pressure decrease accordingly. where there is the air's max speed, the pressure reaches its minimum level. just to make it clearer, imagine the air reaching an absurd level of speed. that means the pressure under the car is going to be very very low. imagine the pressure reach a "zero" value. everything around that area would be sucked in the area to balance the difference of pressure. but since the only thing around there is the car, since the air is flowing at very high speed, that means the car will be attracted to the ground by a very strong force. and so we have the additional grip we needed but without huge wings. but the story doesn't end here.
the point of wings is deviating the air's flux, which generate a force on the wing. this force can be divided in two components, one pushing the car to the ground, the other slowing down the car. you need to find the right balance, from 0 to 45° you will have, theoretically, more load, from 45° to 90° the breaking effect is predominant. think about a car without wing (0°), and a wall (90°). the point is that the air's flux has been scarified for that, and behind the car it's very disturbed and chaotic, following more than direction, possibly also going against the car direction. this will slow down both the car, that would be sucked back by this turbulence (created at the expense of the pressure), and the car following which would found the chaotic and disturbed flux of air without being able to use it at 100% against its wings.
the Venturi effect on the other hand win exactly here. it main characteristic is the ability to recover the initial situation. the pressure energy will be restored to the initial level slowing down the air to the initial level. it's a very difficult part and it required the tunnel to be longer in the second section than in the first one, but after that you will have the air going at alsmot the same speed, and exactly the same direction (it never changed it), being ready to work under the next car.
this technology is actually very old (not talking about the ground effect in F1 during the 70's), it's behind the principle of the old, and simple, carburetor.
it has been used massively in a lot of applications, so it isn't a difficult stuff to adopt in F1 now.

EDIT: forgot the link Venturi effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Last edited by LeonOfTheDead; 11-15-2008 at 07:31 AM.
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  #74  
Old 11-15-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho View Post
Jonathan Kennard. It was only a shakedown test.
Thanks!
BTW.. the Ferrari project doesn't even have a sidepod??
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  #75  
Old 11-15-2008, 01:04 PM
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Well...I'd say Williams will put up some good performance but ultimately remain where they are, a 2nd/3rd rate team.
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