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  #31  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:51 PM
Big time Big time is offline
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Compressed air has too little energy density.
You will only get enough energy to move a really light vehicle for really short distances.

You would get better results with lead acid batteries.
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  #32  
Old 11-11-2011, 11:49 PM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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I agree, generally. In addition, the energy to fill the system would have to come from somewhere, so it could just transfer emissions, if filled from a filling station. However, it is possible that with a sufficient volume, at a high enough pressure, and with a sufficiently efficient method of recovering the pressure, it could be useful. For one thing, it would not be subject to limits on the rate of recharge, in the same way as a normal battery, allowing it to recover and release energy much more rapidly. This may allow it to recover a greater proportion of a vehicle's kinetic energy overall than batteries can. It could also be much faster to fill from a filling station than a battery is, and it would not require specialist materials, like lithium or cadmium, for example, to manufacture, nor an electrician or chemist to service or repair it.

I have not yet calculated the energy storage potential of such a system. If you have any example numbers, Big Time, feel free to share them, so we can make some comparisons. I think you may be right, but I would like to make a rough theoretical comparison to back it up, before I dismiss the idea.
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  #33  
Old 11-12-2011, 06:29 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
The piezo materials currently available certainly have some limitations. On the positive side, material science should make some quite significant improvements in the not-too-distant future. There are a few barriers to their use, though. The ideal way to use them, as you say, would be by integrating them into the structure of the vehicle. I can imagine ways of doing this, using surface coatings, for example. Another might be to sandwich a pre-formed piezo generating layer between two pre-formed sheets of structural metal, then bonding them with epoxy. An advantage of this approach would be that any deformation, anywhere in the entire component, would generate a current. Car platforms tend to have large components, such as floor pans and roofs, pressed from single steel sheets, possibly allowing any deformation of the entire chassis to be exploited
Since English is not my first language, I tried to draw what is in my mind. You enriched this thread by describing it very well; thanks.
Anyway, as I've learned from this thread and if we intend to go beyond recovering the consumed energy to propel the car, along with overcoming the aerodynamic drag & frictional losses, we have to work on those methods of harvesting the power, which are not dependent to moving the car, in other words, they should be in no relation or least relation with the stored power in the battery packs/compressed-air tanks. The solar energy is one of them, it's dependent to an external source, sun, and it could be pretty useful. Bio-force is the next item …
It's hard to obtain a sensible amount of the piezoelectric power when the car is not moving, but because it's inherently dependent to the internal properties of the used materials, in the extreme assumptions, it might yield long additional mileages for the car.
Quote:
However, there are two significant problems with this approach. The first is cost. If it increases the cost of manufacturing a car significantly, it is unlikely to be marketable, unless it recovers an awful lot of power.
Well, as a good news, we might face reasonable prices for the involved materials:
Another excerpts from the UC Berkeley News Center.:
“And because the nanofibers are so small, we could weave them right into clothes with no perceptible change in comfort for the user,” said Lin, who is also co-director of the Berkeley Sensor and Actuator Center at UC Berkeley.
...
“For our preliminary results, we see a trend that the smaller the fiber we have, the better the energy efficiency.

Maybe someday, the appropriate components (especially body) for the piezoelectric power would be woven from those desired nanofibers and cannabis! hey, both of them are organic!
Related links on this weird idea:
Canada to Launch Cannabis Kestrel
Kestrel, the Cannabis Car - autoevolution
Canada has high hopes for Kestrel cannabis car
An Electric Car Made from Hemp | Audubon Magazine Blog
Kestrel: The Electric Car With Body Made From Cannabis | The Green Optimistic
Quote:
The second is strength. Anything that breaks up the structure of a material like steel, will affect its strength and toughness. Manufacturers are already using very high-strength steels, in order to make cars that are competitive in both safety and weight/economy. If these high-technology materials are to be weakened by introducing layers of piezo materials into them, engineering cars for safety may make them frightfully heavy, and engineering them for economy may make them rather unsafe, or give them poor stiffness.
The situation is not necessarily so bad. We can inspire from some patterns in nature, architecture, and civil engineering. If you manipulate the geometry of some structures, you might gain higher resistance against the mechanical tensions, by less amount of used materials. I just watched a related point in a show about the Hong Kong air port engineering, presented by Richard Hammond, in the National Geographic Channel Farsi. Anyway, I think we'd better worry about the size, efficiency & costs issues, fortunately the technological advancements have made this item of strength the last thing one needs to consider. To avoid from poor stiffness and being unsafe, we can apply more solenoid-embedded pieces wherever required. These figures might be informative to show possible solutions to keep a component safe (& more expensive, I admit):
1.
.
2.
Quote:
This site has some good pictures of the construction of the GM Zeta platform, most widely known from the Australian Holden Commodore, and Chevrolet Camaro.
This picture was good for the discussion:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/g...um/G8_Side.JPG
Quote:
Note that the majority of the structure is fabricated from sheet-steel pressings, which are welded together, to create the shell of the car. In particular, there is an interesting image, using colour-coding to identify the different grades of steel used in various parts of the structure. Space-frames, of the type that you have shown, tend to be more expensive to build, and are generally reserved for specialist vehicles, such as sports or racing cars.
As I've suggested in page 12:
Applying the Tailor Welded Blank (TWB) technology [67] can be another solution to mix some of the mentioned materials to have both efficiency and a rational price.
Also, one could use the Airbus methods:
Airbus aircraft that utilises a higher percentage of composite technologies than metallic applications. Its fuselage panels, frames, window frames, clips, and door are made from carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP), with a hybrid door frame structure consisting of this material and titanium being used for the first time. …
Airbus also recognises the individual operational advantages of both composites and metallics, and ensures that an overall airframe always will feature an optimum balance of both materials. As a result, the company continues to research and develop advanced ultra-light alloys in parallel to composites – supporting its philosophy to utilise the most efficient material possible for each and every aircraft component.

Other related links:
http://www.compositesworld.com/artic...-manufacturing
http://nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/Webc...otes/LNm11.pdf
Even we can consider other available samples; for instance 2011 Saab Concept Phoenix applies A stainless steel tank equipped, which is lighter and less expensive than conventional plastic design. Link1, Link2.
Quote:
If you are not familiar with the kei-car concept, it is one of the great policies that Japan has had in place, since the second world war.
Yeah, I heard the term kei-car for the first time in my life from you, then I googled it and read its wiki article. Regarding the area and population of Japan and its natural resources, I understand why they did tend to such cars.
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  #34  
Old 11-12-2011, 08:08 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Karaj
Quote:
Compressed air has too little energy density.
You will only get enough energy to move a really light vehicle for really short distances.

You would get better results with lead acid batteries.
Someone else previously brought up this point in here:
SciForums.com - View Single Post - Two Propulsions of Electricity and Compressed-air for a Hybrid Car
Then I replied him in here:
SciForums.com - View Single Post - Two Propulsions of Electricity and Compressed-air for a Hybrid Car
.
According to this table, the compressed-air is not an attractive option:
Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, I liked its cleanness & other features that MilesR pointed out.
I don't have a blind insist to use it, but we need to make sure about the alternative possibilities. About the batteries that you mentioned, after seeing this table:
Battery (electricity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I liked the Nickel–zinc battery. The lithium batteries lose a major part of their ability after 800-1000 times of charging, so we need to review those batteries or supercapacitors to be used many more times, say for regenerative braking, …
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  #35  
Old 11-12-2011, 08:13 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
… before I dismiss the idea.
It's soon to dismiss the idea, as I've stated in pages 7-8:

Quote:
If for any reason, the driver chooses a propulsion over the other system, that would be adopted. For example in a rainy weather, or in a hot weather, to protect the batteries until drying/cooling them by the air flow, the compressed-air propulsion may be used for most of the time; or in altitudes where the air density is rather low, the electric propulsion may be used for most of the time.

Also, whenever it is needed to impose more power to the car, for example to pass an uphill or to come out of a pit, by fuzzy logic of the central computer or driver's decision, two propulsion systems jointly using electricity and compressed-air act in common and the car would suddenly take off [34]. In this situation, all of the cylinders (4-12 numbers as a proposal) would be used to move the crankshaft, or electrically charge the batteries to pump a gross amount of power into the motors. Maybe even the devoted electricity to the air condition would be appropriated to the propulsion for a few moments. Of course, the length and duration of this operation must be short and bearable to avoid any damage to this EV powertrain. When all the cylinders are active, we expect a lot of strength, and the compressed-air storage finishes fast; but in the usual situation, it might be good to deactivate some cylinders [35] sometimes to use the compressed-air storage with a less strength and slower motion, for a longer duration. In particular if something wrong happens to the batteries and they fail to work, we would have to apply only one system – compressed-air – propulsion. Herein, it is needed to use supercapacitors that give more contributions until being conveyed the car to the nearest repair shop.
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  #36  
Old 11-13-2011, 01:07 AM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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If you have not already heard of Gordon Murray Design, they may be worth a look. They have so far designed two or three concepts, that I am aware of, using rear-mounted kei-car drive-trains, and novel fabrication techniques. One concept (the GMD T.32 "Teewave") is an open-top sports car, using a rear-mounted electric motor, and a body built mostly using carbon-fibre reinforced plastic. They claimed that their production technique could make the carbon-fibre construction affordable, and of course it makes the car much lighter than it might have been. The T.25 is a three-seat town car, using a rear-mounted petrol engine. It was built on a new design of production line, which is claimed to occupy only 20% of the space of a normal factory, while being cheaper, and allowing a wider range of variations to be produced on the single line. The T.27 is an electric version of the T.25, with quite an impressive claimed range. The production process is referred to as iStream. There is more information here.

With regard to structural engineering, strength is usually the first consideration, but it is also usually written into the specifications for any part or structure. The part will be engineered to have the strength, and then modified and refined to retain the strength while saving weight, or fitting a certain space, etc. In the case of car design, a lot of effort has already gone into making cars as strong, stiff and safe as possible, while keeping them as light as possible. They have not totally succeeded, as cars keep getting digger and heavier, in order to achieve the required safety standards, even with the use of the best high-strength materials and methods. Several tricks are already used to optimise the production process. I think the tailor welded blank method may already be in use in the Zeta platform, and probably others too. That is based on a memory that I cannot verify, though.

Also, while I love aircraft building techniques, many aircraft methods and materials are not well applicable to cars, because of differences in loading patterns, and priorities. Aircraft must be very light, so it is worth paying a big premium for the weight savings. Also, aircraft must be as absolutely fail-proof as possible, so again, a much higher production cost can be justified to ensure the saleability of the product. Aircraft also depend upon the airframe to have sufficient flexibility to tolerate harsh landings and bad weather, and crumple zones and passengers cells are unlikely to help in an airline crash. Therefore, aircraft do not have to be rigid. Cars depend on rigidity for their safety and handling. Therefore, aircraft building techniques may be suitable only for particular components of a car.

Don't worry. I have not dismissed the compressed air idea, yet. I want to do some calculations on it first, even if only out of curiosity.
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  #37  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:47 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Karaj
Quote:
If you have not already heard of Gordon Murray Design, they may be worth a look.
His name is familiar, I remember reading an article in a print magazine about him, he must be a famous designer, also his website sounds professional. His small cars can be a suitable answer to the crowded cities needs of transportation. However, I didn't understand your meaning of mentioning him to me. Do you think I should contact him?
Quote:
With regard to structural engineering, strength is usually the first consideration, but it is also usually written into the specifications for any part or structure. The part will be engineered to have the strength, and then modified and refined to retain the strength while saving weight, or fitting a certain space, etc. In the case of car design, a lot of effort has already gone into making cars as strong, stiff and safe as possible, while keeping them as light as possible. They have not totally succeeded, as cars keep getting digger and heavier, in order to achieve the required safety standards, even with the use of the best high-strength materials and methods. Several tricks are already used to optimise the production process.
Alright, I found that show. It's the episode #6 of series 2 of the Richard Hammond's Engineering Connections, with the airdate of 11 October 2009, 12 June 2010 (BBC). Related pages: Link1, Link2.
It seems you can watch all that episode through this clip:
If you want to know what I am talking about, note to that part describing how the builders of Hong Kong's Ocean Airport inspired from a WWII bomber to reduce the number of the columns for their airport. Look at the role of geometry to make a rigid, lighter structure. (To save time, start watching movie from the half, nearly after the 20 minutes, when Hammond begins to talk about the roof)
These might be related to the subject too:


If one applies the right tricks to arrange the less amount of materials, reaching to maximum capacity of their ability is possible, e.g., your Lamborghini does not need to be on the ground forever, you can put it on 4 cups to bear its weight!
Lamborghini Balanced On 4 Tea Cups Bikers Blog
Lamborghini Balanced On 4 Tea Cups | Kawasaki Motorcycles
Quote:
Therefore, aircraft do not have to be rigid. Cars depend on rigidity for their safety and handling. Therefore, aircraft building techniques may be suitable only for particular components of a car.
I am not an expert in this point, but as I see, unlike the propulsion, the technology is well capable of dealing with the strength-related issues for the components, inspired from the aviation industry, or elsewhere.
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2011, 12:24 AM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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I thought of Gordon Murray Design because of the discussion of production methods. Piezo materials could possibly be incorporated into composite materials, or form the basis of composite materials, and one of GMD's concepts was intended as a showcase of new composite fabrication technologies. The other concepts were intended partly to be demonstrators of a novel design of production line. Both the composite fabrication technology, and the production line design, may be relevant to the technical feasibility and economics of the incorporation of piezo materials into the structure of a vehicle. I had no clear reason for suggesting GMD, except as a possible source of inspiration or information on recent manufacturing techniques. And yes, Gordon Murray is quite well known. He designed several formula 1 cars for Brabham and McLaren, as well as designing the McLaren F1 supercar.

I saw that episode of "Engineering Connections" as well. The geodesic construction technique has been in use for a while now, and while it has advantages of weight and strength, it tends to be rigid only in certain directions, partly because its strength is highly directional. Also, because it is made of many attached parts, it is not cheap or quick to make, unlike the pressed sheet metal used in cars. Both of these characteristics are shared with the space-frame construction technique, which is effectively an adaptation of geodesic construction to suit a car. While strength can be optimised through design to a certain extent, like the car on the tea cups, or the classic demonstration of the strength of an egg shell, it is worth bearing in mind that things like cars have to be over-engineered, because they will not always be crashed in the way that their designers intended them to be crashed.

A minor point on mechanical engineering. The mechanical strength of materials can be broadly described by two measures, strength and stiffness. A material that is strong is not always stiff, like a high strength rubber, and a material that is stiff is not always strong, like potato crisps. Materials and designs are determined by both of these factors. Broadly, the stiffness affects the handling, while the strength affects the safety. A Vickers Wellington-like geodesic skin structure could give a car great stiffness and light weight, but it would be unlikely to withstand a collision well, because it was not intended to withstand force that way. Likewise, a sheet of curved steel may withstand a very large force applied to its end, as in a frontal collision, but would not necessarily provide any useful stiffness, despite being heavy.

A related measure is toughness. While the tea cups may support the car, they will not withstand impact well, so despite their strength, they are probably not suitable for vehicle structures. Achieving this combination of stiffness and strength (at a realistic price) is the foremost goal of car designers, and is the reason that some such techniques are not widely used in production cars. That is not to say that there is not room for improvement, but it is likely that significant improvement will involve a substantial cost, or a change in the fundamental design of car structures, and I am not sure where would be the right place to start. My preferred starting point would be with composite manufacture, because composites allow control over directional strength, and almost absolute freedom of shape. The design could be more strongly determined by the ideal shape, instead of being constrained by the limits of the current metal-stamping technique. The limit on composites, particularly carbon-fibre, is the cost of production, and the difficulties of adapting the production process to rapid, large-scale production. Hopefully technological improvements will start to overcome these limits.

Last edited by MilesR; 11-15-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-15-2011, 07:10 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Karaj
I sent an email to his company requesting to consider my plan for their productions.
The message was this:
Subject: Hybrid Automobile Plan for Gordon Murray Design
to: sarah.smith@gordonmurraydesign.com, enquiries@gordonmurraydesign.com
cc: christopher.foster@zytek.co.uk, Motorsport@zytek.co.uk,

Dear Gordon Murray Design Limited,

Hello. I'm an Iranian independent researcher and I want to introduce you a plan that might be interesting to your effort of making a clean vehicle. My background is about physics, not the automotive affairs, but after nearly one year of review, I've prepared a plan of a green car, applying two propulsions of electricity & compressed-air, with the hope of reducing the weather pollution by the fossil resources that most cars use them as fuel. You can have my plan via one of these links:

http://www.vixra.org/abs/1110.0049
http://www.4shared.com/document/wtlx...train_in_.html

During a useful online discussion, I decided to email you to inform you on my plan. In particular, I think that might be interesting to you to consider using piezoelectric materials to provide more power for your new electric vehicle, T.27.
Fortunately, new discoveries have shown one can manufacture piezoelectric materials on an organic basis, cheaply & easily. As a good news, if you could use them in your EV to gain power in kilowatt scales to feed the battery, you would be able to have tens of kilometers additional mileage for your EV. As far as I know, no car company has announced working to realize such a feat, one reason could be that this idea is based on very fresh university researches.
It's my first time to contact a British company and I think you would like to hear about new ideas to improve the propulsion of your cars, definitely make them more efficient than other similar cars in the market. I hope you would find my plan useful, and feel free to question me about any point related to that.

Best Regards,
M. Mansouryar
http://mansouryar.wordpress.com

P.S.: I'm so worried about the global damages to the environment that for one year, I suspended my previous career (selling wind turbines) to work on my hybrid car plan, because I thought it would be a greater service to the mankind and the situation is emergency. I have no claim on presenting novel methods, but I did my best to assemble other ideas in other fields of technology in a hybrid car, to remove its known disadvantages.
****
Damn it! I did a bad typo, I wrote "ten" (of kilometers additional mileage ...) instead of "tens" in my message
Now, How will they think about my email?
.
Quote:
Achieving this combination of stiffness and strength (at a realistic price) is the foremost goal of car designers, and is the reason that some such techniques are not widely used in production cars. That is not to say that there is not room for improvement, but it is likely that significant improvement will involve a substantial cost, or a change in the fundamental design of car structures, and I am not sure where would be the right place to start. My preferred starting point would be with composite manufacture, because composites allow control over directional strength, and almost absolute freedom of shape. The design could be more strongly determined by the ideal shape, instead of being constrained by the limits of the current metal-stamping technique. The limit on composites, particularly carbon-fibre, is the cost of production, and the difficulties of adapting the production process to rapid, large-scale production. Hopefully technological improvements will start to overcome these limits.
Agreed. As I've stated in page 12:
Quote:
The type of used materials of the car, must be of the best possible components to bring efficiency, comfort and high safety. Also, they have to be environmental-friendly and renewable [40, 41], the applied plastics must be non-oil based [42]. In fact, it would be carbonic fibers [43, 44, 45, 46, 47], carbon Kevlar [45, 46, 48, 49], carbon fibre monocoque [50], polycarbonate [51], aluminum [32, 43, 45, 48, 52, 53], magnesium [52], titanium [46, 47, 54], polished stainless steel [48, 55, 56], natural fiber [57], fiber glass [56], reinforced plastic [58], renewable polyethylene [59], thermoplastic [60], nomex composite [43, 61], aerogel [43], makrolon [62], recycled ultra microfiber PET [63], or inconel [64] to construct the body, chassis, cabin, and other components. However, regarding the high price of these materials, one may use the cheaper and more regular materials such as steel [65] and cast iron [66] that can be accepted in some cases that will be explained later. Applying the Tailor Welded Blank (TWB) technology [67] can be another solution to mix some of the mentioned materials to have both efficiency and a rational price.
Also, the used materials have directly and indirectly vital impacts for the propulsion. We need to consider any solution to find a lower price for them. This case is more about the economical policies, and less about the technological capabilities. I welcome to any next progress in this field, I just want to make that progress compatible to give more contribution to propel the car …
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  #40  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:18 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Karaj
Some days ago, I met a reply in another forum which I'd like to deal with its content for now. The quoted segment is:
Quote:
Charging by the thermoelectric effects Bad idea as described/possible good idea. Thermoelectric generators require a significant difference in temperature between the hot side and the cold side to produce power. Let's look at this one: link It can produce 14 watts of power when the cold side is 30c and the hot side is 300c. While I know that Iran is hot in the summer...I don't think it ever gets that hot.  If you look at the spec sheet...with the cold side at 25c and the hot side at 50c...it produces next to no power at all. There simply isn't going to enough of difference in temperature of the cabin and the outside to produce power. However..this got me thinking...what is ~300c on a car? In a gas/electric hybrid...the exhaust system from the ICE is in that temperature range. That heat energy is completely wasted. Since these things only weigh 11 grams each, it might be possible to attach a bunch of them to a square shaped exhaust pipe and recover some of that unused heat energy without adding a whole lot of weight.
Indeed, the thermoelectricity can be as exciting as the piezoelectricity for the car. In the extreme conditions, it might be able to give outstanding contributions to provide more power for an EV; I mean if the program of sensitization would be realized well, to make them more efficient. It would be great if this effect would work for the temperature differences within the 10-20 ranges and even less.
To know about the effect, these wiki articles are good:



Also, to know about its application in the cars, see this:
(Due to its examples, the situation might be better in higher speeds)
Specially, these two files seem very interesting and informative:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...eer_kushch.pdf
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles..._fairbanks.pdf
.
Apparently, in the field of EVs, this effect has been ignored yet. There are cool stuffs about this and one can see them while surfing the web. For example, Finland gets one third of its electricity out of thermoelectricity, BMW, Ford and GM expect the efficiency in the equipped SUVs and sedans to raise by up 5 percent, or a single unit (using that effect) is able to charge up an iPhone in 3 to 5 hours, depending on the heat intensity. You can find further similar news in this category:
Thermoelectric | The Green Optimistic
*
On the other hand, while we need to identify those points of the car having the maximum temperature differences, regarding the dynamic features of the car and my strategy to hunt any temporal opportunity for power generating, I think the desired effect is indeed:

Related news: New Pyroelectric Device Transforms Heat into Electricity With 30% Efficiency | The Green Optimistic
For example, it could be used when the compressed-air tanks are being filled so fast and consequently they get very warm.
Anyway, after considering
, I found the said effects useful for power generating purposes. In addition to these two ones:

Vibration-powered generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Let me finish this post by a recent promising report:
Engineers 'cook' promising new heat-harvesting nanomaterials in microwave oven
Including good points:
Quote:
One of the most promising candidates for this job is zinc oxide, a nontoxic, inexpensive material with a high melting point.
...
To create the new nanomaterial, researchers added minute quantities of aluminum to shape-controlled zinc oxide nanocrystals, and heated them in a $40 microwave oven. Ramanath's team is able to produce several grams of the nanomaterial in a matter of few minutes, which is enough to make a device measuring a few centimeters long. The process is less expensive and more scalable than conventional methods and is environmentally friendly, Ramanath said.
In my opinion, their achievement is so worthy that it deserves one knows about it more technically, by searching the title of their paper.
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  #41  
Old 11-19-2011, 10:09 PM
MilesR MilesR is offline
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Some time just prior to, or during (I forget which) the second world war, gas powered radio sets were available, in Britain at least. They consisted of a bunch of thermocouples, and a gas flame, with the voltage generated being used to drive a normal radio. I believe the waste heat generation was similar to that of an incandescent light bulb. It always amuses me to see an old idea, that had been discarded as useless, being revived, modernised, and becoming a novel, high-technology solution to a problem. Another great example of this is the Lohner-Porsche, or here, for the UCP version.

I think the most efficient and practical system of heat recovery for an internal combustion engine is still the steam turbine system. However, this system has limits. It will not work with low temperatures, as the water needs to boil. It also has an efficiency which is fundamentally limited to something like 27%. For the exploitation of low temperature differences, like the battery heat from an electric car, steam is useless. Thermoelectric generators are a slightly futuristic technology, in that they are not currently as well suited to automotive use as older technologies are, such as steam. This will change as non-internal combustion cars will generate lower waste heat temperatures, and as thermoelectric generator technology advances to the point that low temperature differences can be exploited.

I am looking forward to this, because I would also like to see energy recovery employed in a much wider range of uses than just cars. I am always rather conscious of the amount of heat that is released by electric appliances, such as televisions and computers. In addition, devices such as refrigerators operate in opposition to air conditioning systems, by releasing more heat into a room, which the air conditioner must then remove. It is possible that the thermoelectric effect could be exploited to improve the efficiency of climate control systems, either by working as heat pumps to heat or cool, or by recovering heat that would otherwise be wasted to heating or cooling of the surroundings.

And don't worry about the error in your email. I would not expect them to be dissuaded by an error that a native English speaker could have made as a typing error. Besides, they will have made allowance for English being your second language. Another company that may be worth looking at is Qinetic. Qinetiq were part of the British Ministry of Defence research organisation, until it was privatised. Now they work on military contracts, as well as private projects, and specialise in the cutting edge of practical technologies. I do not know if you would want to contact them, but they may be worth investigating, as some of their technologies seem to overlap with some of your suggestions.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2011, 11:04 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
Likewise, a sheet of curved steel may withstand a very large force applied to its end, as in a frontal collision, but would not necessarily provide any useful stiffness, despite being heavy.
...
The limit on composites, particularly carbon-fibre, is the cost of production, and the difficulties of adapting the production process to rapid, large-scale production. Hopefully technological improvements will start to overcome these limits.
An interesting sample confirming the importance of geometry for the stability and economy of the car:
BASF - The Chemical Company
Smart Forvision Concept - Car Body Design
Smart Forvision Set for 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show
.
Please note to this sentence:
Quote:
The precise facets give the area stability and enable a smaller material thickness to be used.
A few other features of that car sound interesting too.
*
P.S: I just saw your new post, Thanks . I will reply it as soon as possible.
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2011, 05:44 PM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Quote:
Thermoelectric generators are a slightly futuristic technology, in that they are not currently as well suited to automotive use as older technologies are, such as steam. This will change as non-internal combustion cars will generate lower waste heat temperatures, and as thermoelectric generator technology advances to the point that low temperature differences can be exploited.
Why won't that future car be my plan? I wonder what lucky company would do it first? This is a mine of gold in front of our eyes. The piezoelectricity, thermoelectricity, … somebody just dig the power from this mine!
Quote:
I am looking forward to this, because I would also like to see energy recovery employed in a much wider range of uses than just cars. I am always rather conscious of the amount of heat that is released by electric appliances, such as televisions and computers. In addition, devices such as refrigerators operate in opposition to air conditioning systems, by releasing more heat into a room, which the air conditioner must then remove. It is possible that the thermoelectric effect could be exploited to improve the efficiency of climate control systems, either by working as heat pumps to heat or cool, or by recovering heat that would otherwise be wasted to heating or cooling of the surroundings.
Exactly, the green revolution has to be in all possible aspects. However, I liked the thermoelectric idea for the car, at the first glance. Constructing a fabulous house for living has always been a dream of mine, including numerous amazing capabilities, but for now, I'm focused on this car plan.
BTW, about saving the heat in a house, a recent news seemed cool to me:
The Spray-On Radiator
Scientists invent heat-regulating building material - The University of Nottingham
The spray on radiator set to slash household bills by 35% could be on the market in two years | Mail Online
Quote:
Another company that may be worth looking at is Qinetic. Qinetiq were part of the British Ministry of Defence research organisation, until it was privatised. Now they work on military contracts, as well as private projects, and specialise in the cutting edge of practical technologies. I do not know if you would want to contact them, but they may be worth investigating, as some of their technologies seem to overlap with some of your suggestions.
OK, I sent an email to them. It was so:

Subject: Hybrid Automobile Plan for QinetiQ
To:ntb@qinetiq.com

Dear QinetiQ,

Hello. I've prepared a plan on a hybrid car using electricity & compressed-air propulsion systems. I think the suggested methods would severely help the car economy with deep environmental impacts. You might want to consider it for your goals. Here is two addresses for my plan:

http://vixra.org/abs/1110.0049
http://www.4shared.com/document/wtlx...train_in_.html

If you would like to help me to realize it, please let me know.

Regards,
M. Mansouryar
****
Indeed, I was a kind of consultant for a physics division in the ministry of defense for a while. Lately, I presented my car plan to a friend in there and we even met a high rank official. However, I have the least hope of a bright future for my plan in there, mostly because of its horrible bureaucracy and their wrong belief that we have plenty much of oil. The military-related entities have a tough financial reliance and are too conservative to seek novel ways which are not directly related to the battlefield, but a private company might like to discover new sources of income. Anyway, I sent my message, the rest is not up to me …
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  #44  
Old 11-22-2011, 04:04 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Karaj
Quote:
Some time just prior to, or during (I forget which) the second world war, gas powered radio sets were available, in Britain at least. They consisted of a bunch of thermocouples, and a gas flame, with the voltage generated being used to drive a normal radio. I believe the waste heat generation was similar to that of an incandescent light bulb. It always amuses me to see an old idea, that had been discarded as useless, being revived, modernised, and becoming a novel, high-technology solution to a problem.
As another example, let me quote from page 25:
Quote:
Various treadmills are in different sizes (for adults, children, etc) that can be purchased. Also, using domestic animals like dog, horse, cow, or sheep can also be used to this end, by particular treadmills [96]; charging the car for owners of these animals sounds easy, and benefiting from the animals for this job can be done professionally, and finds economic aspects.
So let me explain about this paragraph more. Regarding the rate of petroleum consumption as the automobiles fuel, sooner or later there would be no oil to run a car.
To name an example, one could consider PPV:
The People Powered Vehicle, or PPV, was a 2-person pedal-powered car introduced in the United States during the oil crisis of the early 1970's. Manufactured by EVI of Sterling Heights, Michigan, it sold for less than $400.
This idea is not popular for now, but the future might make it a more serious option. There are several useful links about this concept:
Human-electric hybrid vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (introducing the whole idea)
(considering most of such made vehicles)
(invented by an Iranian engineer!)
Directory:Human-Powered - PESWiki (listing some other examples, one of them is):
HumanCar® Inc.
HumanCar aims for a healthy planet with healthy drivers
Human Powered Car Can Go 30 MPH While Driving Uphill | Inhabitat - Green Design Will Save the World
Two other interesting instances:
TWIKE | home
(a human-electric hybrid vehicle / light electric vehicle)
150MPG Human Powered Goblin Aero
Aerorider | Ultralight vehicle | Electric hybrid tricycle (ultralight electric hybrid tricycle)
Actually, human power in the style of on-board or off-board, could be effective for a car, especially the smaller the better. Definitely, consider a
.
A related news: Foot Powered Generator from Freeplay Energy
,with a cool comment:
Quote:
Joan: Maybe my husband could get used to my shaking foot syndrome if I could charge some of his batteries with this device.
Therefore, human body is able to generate power in a clean way:

Runners Could Power Street Lights | TechMASH Tech Gadget Geeky News
Light Running: Energy-Generating Human Hamster Wheel | Gadgets, Science & Technology (this page seems cool, see also the below news of the page)
*
The question is: What can be done to have less need to human body? A possible solution for this situation could be an old trick, using animals, but in a new fashion.
Indeed, this solution has been done before, but it should be performed in wider dimensions.
Inspired from the above information, one could use the animals in special treadmills or "green wheels" to generate power:

Cows on Treadmills Produce Electricity for Farms | Inhabitat - Green Design Will Save the World
Odd Invention: Idle Livestock Hit the Treadmill to Generate Electricity For Farms | Popular Science
.
This method might be applicable in everywhere but downtown of big cities. The local economies in rural areas could be less dependent to the external energy. If I were the manager of a repair shop or EV charging station, I would buy several cows or horses to use them to give a contribution to produce electricity for the customers, so my animals would gain experienced muscles and I could also register them to the equestrianism or betting on horse racing to earn money.
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  #45  
Old 11-30-2011, 04:36 AM
mansouryar mansouryar is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Karaj
Recently, I found a cool suggestion:
Quote:
Charge your electric car on the move

27 November 2011 by Katie Bourzac
Magazine issue 2840. Subscribe and save
For similar stories, visit the Energy and Fuels Topic Guide

ELECTRIC cars are clean, green and rather cool these days - even if they can't compete with conventional vehicles in terms of battery life and driving range. These disadvantages could disappear, however, with a system for wirelessly charging cars as they speed down the highway.
To do this, Shanhui Fan and colleagues at the Center for Automotive Research at Stanford University in California, suggest using magnetic coils embedded in the roadway to create a weak field that resonates with a coil on the car to transfer power. This kind of power transfer works on a similar principle to an opera singer shattering a glass by singing precisely the right note. In 2007, researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology demonstrated that magnetic resonance could be used to transfer power wirelessly between two stationary objects 2 metres apart.
Fan, who presented his work at the Stanford Global Climate and Energy Project Symposium in October, wondered whether magnetic power transfer would be possible at highway speeds, and at levels sufficient for vehicles. Accounting for the metal body and movement of the car, his calculations showed that a set of resonant coils and discs could transfer about 10 kilowatts with a 97 per cent efficiency within 7 microseconds - fast enough for the highway. The system, which the group has yet to build, should be safe because power can only be transferred between two objects whose resonance is very closely attuned.
There are two main benefits of highway wireless power, says Fan. A driver wouldn't have to fear getting stranded on the road with nowhere to plug in, and electric-car batteries could be smaller, cutting costs.
Source: Charge your electric car on the move - tech - 27 November 2011 - New Scientist
.
Also, read the comments below the report. That made me think about a possible application for the improved poles, as that method with the title of "Modify the Grid to Charge an Electric Car"; see the pages 14 & 15 of my plan file:
Quote:
Moreover, a small solar panel may use light during the day as a supplement means for the system [81]. Also, a battery that is able to save the lamp electricity for at least 12 hours, causes us to be reasonably ready for the worst conditions. At least one can consider this program with a specific number of poles (e.g., every other 2 or 4 or 8 or more), a compressor, attached to a compressed-air storage tank that would be appropriated to save electricity storage more than the battery. The extra produced electricity would be conducted to the compressor to be saved in the form of compressed-air in the tank to be given to the grid or the required cars; that would be good if one could save the energy in those tanks in the scale of a week. Incoming air to the compressor must be through a special filter to block dust; the compressor can be in a safe steel box on the ground, and the compressed-air tank may be put 1-2 meters under the ground; such a program is being operated in a greater scale for now (See Fig. 14; [82]). We suggest this program be realized locally, rather than nationally. Therefore, every city or country could perform this program in the proper scale, depending on the related economical and other practical conditions.
Therefore, another application for such a system, could be providing the required power for those magnetic coils embedded in the roadway.
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clean personal car, compressed-air propulsion, electric vehicle, green car, hybrid vehicle


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