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  #16  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:18 PM
roosterjuicer roosterjuicer is offline
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I dont think cars like hennessy, saleen, mosler, SSC ultimate aero, and other overblown kit cars like that should be considered "american supercars". They are kit cars with super car performance, and they are made in America.

I think its a tossup between latest Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1. I think the Corvette wins even though the viper may be faster. The zr-1 seems to have the supercar mystique that the viper lacks.

And who cares if the ZR-1 isn't technically "front mid engined". The whole point of any type of mid engined car is to get good weight distribution and the vette achieves that without a "mid engined" layout.

I do think the Ford GT is in the running too. Just due to its great styling and rarity.
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Last edited by roosterjuicer; 10-27-2010 at 08:21 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:27 PM
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I wouldn't call it a supercar, but my vote would go to the Z06 in the modern age, just pipping the Devon GTX (my favorite Viper derivative).

In the past I think I would also have to give it to one of Jim Hall's creations, though I don't think any of those made it to the street?
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
Ehhhh... I liked the Viper when it came out as it was crazy and I was a lad, then I cooled. Now I like it again, but I can't help shake that at heart, I prefer the Corvette. I prefer the engine, I prefer the heritage, I prefer the fact that it was a huge deal - I was really pulling for GM at that time after disliking the company for most of my life. I saw the ZR1 at NAIAS the year of it's launch... I dunno, I just dig it.

The ACR is awesome though. Hmm... What about a very limited run end of the line street legal track special ZR1?

It won't happen, but it'd be cool.

EDIT: You are just a Mopar fanboy.
True. Still, the Viper is more my kind of car even if I were a GM fanboy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roosterjuicer View Post
I dont think cars like hennessy, saleen, mosler, SSC ultimate aero, and other overblown kit cars like that should be considered "american supercars". They are kit cars with super car performance, and they are made in America.

I think its a tossup between latest Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1. I think the Corvette wins even though the viper may be faster. The zr-1 seems to have the supercar mystique that the viper lacks.

And who cares if the ZR-1 isn't technically "front mid engined". The whole point of any type of mid engined car is to get good weight distribution and the vette achieves that without a "mid engined" layout.

I do think the Ford GT is in the running too. Just due to its great styling and rarity.
If the Saleen is a kit car, then so is a Zonda. It has more engineering and development behind it than anything not from a major company like Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini. It had far more than the Ford GT which was a rush job and showed why that can sometimes bite you in the butt.

The Corvette is more comfortable and better suited to daily driving, which is why more people like it and why it has more mystique (plus a long running fanbase). If that's what floats your boat then that's fine.

If I spend $100,000 on a sportscar then I want to drive it, not worry about whether or not I can take it shopping or if it has a place for my latte. Purity has it's place.
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:43 PM
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For some reason, the Zonda is right above the kit car line to me while the s7 is right below it.

I cant back that up with any data or evidence and perhaps I've just been brainwashed by Zonda looks over the years. I do think looks has a lot to do with it, cars that I perceive as a kit car all seem to look somewhat similar with huge air ducts and super flash without any class. Perhaps the I sense some class in the zonda that i dont see in the others?
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
The source of all knowledge says it's the position of the centre of mass of the engine which makes the difference between FR and FMR, in which case I'd guess that the ZR1 is FMR.
Wouldn't that make just about every front engine, RWD car a front mid setup. I mean how many actually have the center of the motor (the approximate location of the CG) ahead of the axle line?
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  #21  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:51 PM
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Wouldn't that make just about every front engine, RWD car a front mid setup. I mean how many actually have the center of the motor (the approximate location of the CG) ahead of the axle line?
Audis. And they're proud of that for some reason.
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
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Wouldn't that make just about every front engine, RWD car a front mid setup. I mean how many actually have the center of the motor (the approximate location of the CG) ahead of the axle line?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
Audis. And they're proud of that for some reason.
Yes.
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2010, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wwgkd View Post
Audis. And they're proud of that for some reason.
I can't think of any RWD Audis but yes, they and Subies basically have the engine CG in front of the front wheels. Then again their cars seem to be built like a FWD rather than a RWD car like the AWD BMW, Infinity and Caddy models. I don't mean how they route torque through the AWD system but how they lay out the chassis.
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:01 PM
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I would usually be the first person to start saying things like Saleen or Hennessey, but I have to say I really like the ZR1. I don't usually like American sports cars or Corvette's but the ZR1 is just an awesome machine. It looks good, it has the power, the performance and it will out do cars many times its cost. I think of the ZR1 as comparable to a Hennessey or Saleen in terms of rareness but (if you were in America at least) having it breakdown wouldn't be an issue because I assume Chevrolet dealers are everywhere.
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  #25  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:31 PM
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If keeping the discussion to contemporary products, this is easy: Corvette ZR1. As great as it is, the Ford GT loses by being more expensive vis-a-vis performance, and specialty makers like Saleen or Mosler fall a distant third when total costs are considered. No doubt, these are all impressive and exceptional cars, but the Corvette does it better for considerably less money and fuss. I would almost include the Viper coupe as an option, but it's no longer in production and simply not as civilized as the ZR1.
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
If keeping the discussion to contemporary products, this is easy: Corvette ZR1. As great as it is, the Ford GT loses by being more expensive vis-a-vis performance, and specialty makers like Saleen or Mosler fall a distant third when total costs are considered. No doubt, these are all impressive and exceptional cars, but the Corvette does it better for considerably less money and fuss. I would almost include the Viper coupe as an option, but it's no longer in production and simply not as civilized as the ZR1.
are Saleens still being produced? I mean the mid engined ones.
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  #27  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:50 PM
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Its not hard to steal the show by squeezing massive power out of an engine and shoe-horning it into the same car that every other guy going through a midlife crisis already owns. That's where the credentials debate comes back into play. Can you call it a supercar?

The Ford GT, although not as balls-to-the-walls as the Corvette, was a limited production car that was completely original albeit based on a 60's Le Mans racecar, and not just a corvette on steroids. It may have a muscle car heartbeat, but the fact that it was truly such a special production car makes it far more worthy of supercar status than the Über vette. So the corvette has power, but what is power if its not joined by exclusivity and wow factor? I'm sure there's civis out there with 700 horsepower too. There's nothing super about them though.
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  #28  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
are Saleens still being produced? I mean the mid engined ones.
Did they make them any other way?
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  #29  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:52 PM
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Did they make them any other way?
I thought they also produced some Mustang derivatives, but that the whole company went bust a couple of years ago.
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  #30  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:54 PM
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Whoops. You may be right... OK, that leaves Moslers. I stand by my earlier comments.
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