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  #16  
Old 02-04-2009, 07:06 PM
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other than the wheels, i think it's alright
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  #17  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Damiano, that's not a new car. It's just recombining different already available Aston parts.

In my opinion it's time to move on. Or at least don't so many bloody variants, it's just not needed. It is a bit as if the Aston range was the Mustang lineup, full of special editions...
I know they are basically playing with all the spare parts they have, but it's something we wouldn't have complained about if it was happened in the sixties. I think the only real problem is the fact that, yeah, they all look very similar, or even the same.
I got their points, the differences between each car, and the kind of "message" they bring, but I also recognize changing a little the exterior (and the interiors too) would have avoid them a lot of critics.
A part fromt hat, which I'm fine with after all, I can't see how to compare them to the Mustang's family.
In that way, even Maserati is made of just one old car, tracking the origins of that chassis to the old 3200GT, then evolved in the QP and finally in the GraTurismo. Ferrari is made of two cars, the front engined and the mid engined, with the California being just a patch work. What about Lotus? they are all the same car, just stretched or uglier (even if I personally like the Europa, I think), and so on.
what are the differences between those companies and AM? the latter uses a single style language, the other create just a sort of family feeling, in some cases.
I can't see an objective problem, really.
The DB9 and DBS proved to be quite different in their behavior, something like a 645i and an M6, or a DB7 and a DB7 Vantage, or F430 and Scuderia.
Basically the same with the V8 and V12 Vantage, even if the V12 should use a stretched version of the chassis in order to accommodate the longer engine, so it's not that simple.
accordingly, even the Rapide has its place in the line up.
I never heard someone complaining in this same way (no only you Albert, just generally) about Porsche and the 911's mitosis in so many versions you have problems trying to remember and recognize all of them.
Or Lamborghini giving us pseudo special editions based on Versace's mood.

as long as they don't sell an AM for 50.000 €, they don't raise the production figures to 20.000 cars per year, and as long as they still look good, I'm happy with what AM, being also a small and independent brand, is doing.
and yeah, this car as already stated isn't as good looking as the others, but I still prefer it over a lot of other cars, and I need so many more pics to understand it, the V12, I can't really express a decent opinion at the moment.


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Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post
DBS > V12 Vantage.

Every guy I see driving a Vantage in LA looks too old to be driving it and much more eager to talk about the deal he got on it rather than how much he enjoys driving it.
perhaps it's difficult to buy a 100.000 € car when you are younger
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
I know they are basically playing with all the spare parts they have, but it's something we wouldn't have complained about if it was happened in the sixties. I think the only real problem is the fact that, yeah, they all look very similar, or even the same.
I got their points, the differences between each car, and the kind of "message" they bring, but I also recognize changing a little the exterior (and the interiors too) would have avoid them a lot of critics.
A part fromt hat, which I'm fine with after all, I can't see how to compare them to the Mustang's family.
In that way, even Maserati is made of just one old car, tracking the origins of that chassis to the old 3200GT, then evolved in the QP and finally in the GraTurismo. Ferrari is made of two cars, the front engined and the mid engined, with the California being just a patch work. What about Lotus? they are all the same car, just stretched or uglier (even if I personally like the Europa, I think), and so on.
what are the differences between those companies and AM? the latter uses a single style language, the other create just a sort of family feeling, in some cases.
I can't see an objective problem, really.
The DB9 and DBS proved to be quite different in their behavior, something like a 645i and an M6, or a DB7 and a DB7 Vantage, or F430 and Scuderia.
Basically the same with the V8 and V12 Vantage, even if the V12 should use a stretched version of the chassis in order to accommodate the longer engine, so it's not that simple.
accordingly, even the Rapide has its place in the line up.
I never heard someone complaining in this same way (no only you Albert, just generally) about Porsche and the 911's mitosis in so many versions you have problems trying to remember and recognize all of them.
Or Lamborghini giving us pseudo special editions based on Versace's mood.

as long as they don't sell an AM for 50.000 €, they don't raise the production figures to 20.000 cars per year, and as long as they still look good, I'm happy with what AM, being also a small and independent brand, is doing.
and yeah, this car as already stated isn't as good looking as the others, but I still prefer it over a lot of other cars, and I need so many more pics to understand it, the V12, I can't really express a decent opinion at the moment.
I can see your point but I still can't agree. I personally think that Aston Martin is adifferent case to all the examples you mentioned, except perhaps Lotus, and even that could be argued.

For a start Aston Martin pretends that all those cars are new cars, not just variants of the same car. And yet all look the same and have the same components. On the sharing parts front, I can certainly stand it since these days manufacturers need to share parts in order to make sense financially.

But why have they got to look all the same. You mention that Quatroporte and the GranTurismo share the same chasis and drivetrain. Fair enough, but they don't look alike at all. Why, then has the Rapide got to look exactly like a streched four door DB9? Have they got no imagination at all? And then V8 Vantage looks like a suqashed DB9 and this like a V8 Vantage on steriods... and so it goes on. And you argues that all 911s look the same, bt Porsche doesn't pretend that a base Carrera and a GT2 are different models.

And there's the little matter of overlaping. Because what the point of this car at all? Isn't the DBS directed at exactly the same market? They have the same engine, the same chasis, seat the same number of people, weight about the same and have about the same performance. They will probably have similar prices too.

Aston seemed to have found a nice business plan, but they may be starting to lose the plot if they aren't careful.
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  #19  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
perhaps it's difficult to buy a 100.000 € car when you are younger
DB9 customers look younger than V8 customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I can see your point but I still can't agree. I personally think that Aston Martin is adifferent case to all the examples you mentioned, except perhaps Lotus, and even that could be argued.

For a start Aston Martin pretends that all those cars are new cars, not just variants of the same car. And yet all look the same and have the same components. On the sharing parts front, I can certainly stand it since these days manufacturers need to share parts in order to make sense financially.

But why have they got to look all the same. You mention that Quatroporte and the GranTurismo share the same chasis and drivetrain. Fair enough, but they don't look alike at all. Why, then has the Rapide got to look exactly like a streched four door DB9? Have they got no imagination at all? And then V8 Vantage looks like a suqashed DB9 and this like a V8 Vantage on steriods... and so it goes on. And you argues that all 911s look the same, bt Porsche doesn't pretend that a base Carrera and a GT2 are different models.

And there's the little matter of overlaping. Because what the point of this car at all? Isn't the DBS directed at exactly the same market? They have the same engine, the same chasis, seat the same number of people, weight about the same and have about the same performance. They will probably have similar prices too.

Aston seemed to have found a nice business plan, but they may be starting to lose the plot if they aren't careful.
It's that same Ian Callum design language they've been using forever!
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  #20  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I can see your point but I still can't agree. I personally think that Aston Martin is adifferent case to all the examples you mentioned, except perhaps Lotus, and even that could be argued.

For a start Aston Martin pretends that all those cars are new cars, not just variants of the same car. And yet all look the same and have the same components. On the sharing parts front, I can certainly stand it since these days manufacturers need to share parts in order to make sense financially.

But why have they got to look all the same. You mention that Quatroporte and the GranTurismo share the same chasis and drivetrain. Fair enough, but they don't look alike at all. Why, then has the Rapide got to look exactly like a streched four door DB9? Have they got no imagination at all? And then V8 Vantage looks like a suqashed DB9 and this like a V8 Vantage on steriods... and so it goes on. And you argues that all 911s look the same, bt Porsche doesn't pretend that a base Carrera and a GT2 are different models.
maybe I didn't express my self well enough with the Maserati example: besides being technically similar or an evolution, the QP and the GT look quite different, while the DB9 and V8 (or Rapide) look very similar. Objectivelly we have two couples of good cars, but whit a different choice in style, and I understand why you don't stand it. I do too (even if way less, but afteral I like AM).
besides, reading the press releases it really seems that porsche would like you to believe the GT2 and the Carrera are two different cars, but most of all I don't like the fact the GT2, or even the Turbo costs twice a Carrera, options apart, without becoming a new car, something to represent the additional money. the feeling of paying to much is my issue with top of the line versions of the 911 family.
And then all the Porsche line-up is a variation on the 911 theme, usually uglier than the 911 (I can save the Cayman, marginally). I prefer AM cars looking very similar between each other, than Porsche cars looking all similar to a 911 but uglier.
point is, look is a very subjective thing.

Quote:
And there's the little matter of overlaping. Because what the point of this car at all? Isn't the DBS directed at exactly the same market? They have the same engine, the same chasis, seat the same number of people, weight about the same and have about the same performance. They will probably have similar prices too.

Aston seemed to have found a nice business plan, but they may be starting to lose the plot if they aren't careful.
I agree on this, the first thing I thought when this V12 was unveiled with the specs too has been: "oh bastards, since you sold out the DBS, then there already is room for a clone".
being a little too much cynic, this is a shortened DBS with some more air vents. it's too much to my eyes, because I'm biased, so it's fine if you, or someone else, think it is so.

I would say I prefer a rebodied car with exactly the same underpinnings rather than the same body with a new drivetrain, if it doesn't need a 4 times higher price (Reventòn, anybody?) and perhaps it could be a possibility AM shoudl consider in order to make money with low costs of investment (which is what they are doing right now).
We recognize a car by its look, not its engine, in the end.
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  #21  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:21 AM
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By the way, I just wanted to say that despite all I like Astons.

In fact a DB9 hardtop with the SP and a manual is my favourite new car.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:29 AM
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In fact a DB9 hardtop with the SP and a manual is my favourite new car.
What is the SP?
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:33 AM
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What is the SP?
Sport Pack.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicFromLA View Post


It's that same Ian Callum design language they've been using forever!
That was the DB7. The DB9´s design language was developed by Henrik Fisker, same designer as the BMW Z8. He has a coachbuilding business now and is developing the Joker Mobile, which is an electric 4 door coupe.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:27 PM
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That was the DB7. The DB9´s design language was developed by Henrik Fisker, same designer as the BMW Z8. He has a coachbuilding business now and is developing the Joker Mobile, which is an electric 4 door coupe.
Quite right. I rather like the DB9, but I'm not crazy about Fisker's other designs.
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:51 PM
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Sport Pack.
What does it entail?
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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What does it entail?
suspension changes, different wheels, and iirc upgraded brakes.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:12 PM
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What does it entail?
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Originally Posted by clutch-monkey View Post
suspension changes, different wheels, and iirc upgraded brakes.
And balls. Balls come standard with the Sport Pack.
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:19 PM
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And balls. Balls come standard with the Sport Pack.
why's that?
just how much difference do these changes make haha!
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2009, 01:54 AM
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You stop being a poser and you become a gentleman racer.

And you're back in '59 charging down the Mulsanne straight echoing the sounds of the magnificent straight six...

...And...

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