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Old 04-17-2010, 08:00 PM
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2010 Motorcycle Racing

Not too sure how this will pan out. Feel free to discuss MotoGP, World Superbike, national championships, offroad racing, and anything else involving two wheels and a timer.

Anyways, the first round of MotoGP was last weekend, Casey Stoner crashed out of the race after it looked like he'd comfortably win. Rossi took the win, but he must be nervous with Ducati's pace.

I've started following World Superbike somewhat too - still haven't watched the 3rd race, but it's saved on my buddy's DVR. Maybe will catch a round of the Canadian Superbike Championship or whatever it's called.

What about the rest of you?
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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Nice thinking Cam. I too enjoy following MotoGP; that and more recently those Isle of Man TT's on the HD Theatre network (if you haven’t seen those you must). I've never really got into SBK though, maybe this is the year.

Stoner threw that race away, but I'm wondering what Lorenzo is going to do to Rossi this year? There's obviously some kind of rift in the team between the two riders and I'm excited to see how that rivalry within the team will play out.

I'm putting Nicky and Pedrosa as the dark horses (Nicky especially from last year’s abysmal effort) for the year... still may be too early to say for sure though.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LTSmash View Post
Nice thinking Cam. I too enjoy following MotoGP; that and more recently those Isle of Man TT's on the HD Theatre network (if you haven’t seen those you must). I've never really got into SBK though, maybe this is the year.

Stoner threw that race away, but I'm wondering what Lorenzo is going to do to Rossi this year? There's obviously some kind of rift in the team between the two riders and I'm excited to see how that rivalry within the team will play out.

I'm putting Nicky and Pedrosa as the dark horses (Nicky especially from last year’s abysmal effort) for the year... still may be too early to say for sure though.
I want to check out some Isle of Man - it seems pretty cool.

SBK is worth a look - Speed TV has races on typically.

Word at Yamaha is Rossi wants Lorenzo out - it's either he goes, or Rossi says he'll take the supposedly fat offer Ducati has for him.

Great start for Spies in MotoGP too - not so great start for Suzuki.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
I want to check out some Isle of Man - it seems pretty cool.
Completely epic to watch them zipping through the narrow roads lined with foliage and homes (I'm sure YouTube may have some footage if you haven't seen the television program). Oh yeah, and the balls of Isle of Man riders eclipse the balls size of any MotoGP rider tenfold.



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Word at Yamaha is Rossi wants Lorenzo out - it's either he goes, or Rossi says he'll take the supposedly fat offer Ducati has for him.
Possible, but the driving style of that Ducati (in past years, 2010 may be different) seems to really take high to the straights and doesn't have the agility of the Yamaha in the corners. I‘d take cornering any day before straight line speed. It could be a dramatic switch, though, having a proven Italian champion at the top Italian team.

If the deal never goes through he should just walk onto Scuderia Ferrari or join Kimi at Citroen Jr.

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Great start for Spies in MotoGP too - not so great start for Suzuki.
Is he on cannabis when he interviews?
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:28 AM
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There's talk that the Japan round of the MotoGP will be delayed until October due to the volcanic action interupting flights and whatnot. Seems fairly likely at this point.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:51 AM
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Isle of Man TT ( and the ManxGP in August ) are great on TV .... BUT, seriously ANY bike fan has to arrange a vacation to include the race week if not the two weeks includign practise. A whole island given to motorsport
bals ?? for sure, Rossi would only do a "shepherded" slow circuit for the crowds and it's Lorenzo and NIeto this year.
GP greats Lorenzo and Nieto confirmed for 2010 TT - The official Isle of Man TT website
Just wish ONE of the crop had the will to push it hard - even if only to the speeds us mere mortals attain

MotoGP is THE best overtaking in any motorsport event in the world.

WSB/BSB etc etc are great racing but sadly dominated by rule manipulation that make Ecclestone look an amateur.

Intrigued to see how others view their own nations SuerBike race series as the British one used to be THE place to race before getting a WSB ride, but not so sure now.

For me BSB is good as some of the road race greats do circuit racing in it.


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Old 04-18-2010, 04:01 AM
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MotoGP... I used to deeply enjoy it, but I guess it has been spoiled by those fanatics commenting the race over here.

The first round track has always been an easy bet for Stoner, so it doesn't actually show if he is that much faster than Rossi, while the win of the Italian and that hige mistake of the Australian may have an important impact on their respective minds.
I think Pedrosa will somehow never materialize in something seriously dangerous for the title. He is always close, but lacks a bit of...madness, perhaps. Ironically the Italian commentators nicknamed him "Danito Camomillo", with camomillo basically meaning chamomile, so you got that.
Plus, this year's Honda seems to be a difficult horse, only De Puniet seems to enjoy it.

Didn't watch SBK yet this year, but it's a nice show. Probably a better one back when Fogarty and the likes weere storming the tracks. I remember I particularly liked Ben Bostrom, and everyone who managed to scratch the bike's hulls while cornering.

Motocross is nice as well, but that may be a bit of stretch and now it isn't aired on free channels here.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:13 AM
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I think that the most impressive thing about the the first MotoGP race was how docile has the Ducati been turned. Usually it was only Stoner who could tame it and make it fast, and while it seems he can still do it and extract and amazing turn of speed, seeing Hayden up there in the front is a sign that things may be changing.

Hondas do have a problem, altough what a speed, and Dovizioso was there, but Pedrosa was basically nowhere, even overtaken by private Hondas. I guess we'll see if they can sort things out. Because if the can't, this may turn into a two horse race.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:14 AM
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Go Leon! Also, stop crashing Camier, you pillock.

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Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
MotoGP is THE best overtaking in any motorsport event in the world.

WSB/BSB etc etc are great racing but sadly dominated by rule manipulation that make Ecclestone look an amateur.
I think you got those mixed up.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:43 AM
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^^ mixed up ?

No .... MotoGP ... one simple engine rule.

WSB ? Suzuki running restrictors to reduce power so they can't sweep the board, Ducati allowed to run engines bigger than everyone else. Attempts to limit budgets ALWAYS avoided by Ducato who always had to have a new engine each race as they basically shegged themselves running desmo gear at those powers/speeds. All so marketing can con the buying public
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:03 AM
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Suzuki running restrictors? Are you high? Only the V-Twins are running restrictors, which is why they're about 20-30hp down on the 4's. And yes, the V-twins are 1200 not 1000, but they're also heavier. And the days of having a new engine for practice, qualifying, and race day are over. Why? Because they run the 1200s at a much lower rate of tune. All the complaints levelled against Ducati all come down to the fact that they take it more seriously and put more resources into it than the other manufacturers.

MotoGP's rules are stupid. Bring in the 800s "for safety" to slow them down. Straight away, lap times are higher, and trap speeds weren't far behind. Some ridiculously arbitrary fuel limit that serves no purpose than to increase the already overbearing electronic packages, and **** riders who use up to much early on, case in point, Hayden at Qatar. He had to duke it out to open a gap, used too much fuel and got bitched under power by Dovi. Hell, Rossi had a clear run most of the race and he didn't make it back to the pits, ran dry on the warm-down lap.

And I present, the 2012 engine regs. One engine? I think not!

Quote:
The engine regulations slated to go into affect in 2012 were agreed to in principal in Qatar, but not before intense negotiations and not by unanimous consent.

The MSMA, essentially the factory cartel, was pushing for a rule that would prohibit any factory from racing a 1000c production-derived engine. This would include the current factories, as well as BMW, Aprilia, Kawasaki or any other factory that wanted to join the series. Essentially it would keep them on the outside looking in. Only private teams-Monster Yamaha Tech 3, Gresini Honda, Pramac Racing, etc.-could race a production-derived engine and the factories would continue to race 800's. Considering how unpopular the 800's are with the riders, that wouldn't sit well with much of the grid.

And there developed a rift among the factories. Honda and Yamaha were in favor of keeping 800's, while Suzuki and Ducati wanted to revert back to liter bikes. The1000cc engines would have been restricted by rev limiters and intake restrictors. The provisional agreement that was reached calls for the 800's to continue as they are, but with factory machinery opened up to 1000cc prototype engines. If a factory chooses to run a 1000cc engine, that engine is limited to an 81 mm bore, to a 21 liter fuel tank, and to six engines for the 2012 season. That allows BMW, Aprilia, Kawasaki and any other manufacturer to compete on liter-sized, purpose-built racing engines.

The private teams that want to race 1000cc production-based engines, i.e, R1's, GSX-R1000's, CBR1000RR's, are also limited to 81 mm bores, but they can fit a 24-liter gas tank and can use up to 12 engines.

One of the final details to be decided is the claiming rule. There will be a mechanism to claim the non-factory machines, but the cost and logistics of haven't been worked out.

Final ratification is expected at the Japanese GP in Motegi on the weekend of April 24-25.
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Last edited by 2ndclasscitizen; 04-18-2010 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen View Post
Suzuki running restrictors? Are you high?
yes
Was previous "problem" with the formula.
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Only the V-Twins are running restrictors
BECAUSE THEY ARE RUNNING 200cc more ?
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but they're also heavier
Weight is not controlled by results, so the more extreme a biek is in perfomrance then the poitns are used to factor in weight to try to bring it back.
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And the days of having a new engine for practice, qualifying, and race day are over. Why?
Beacuse Ducati aren't guaranteed to win as tey once were when the demanded treatment that ensured race wins for them then now they dont' have as much cash and they can't afford it.
Quote:
Because they run the 1200s at a much lower rate of tune. All the complaints levelled against Ducati all come down to the fact that they take it more seriously and put more resources into it than the other manufacturers.
EVERYBODY now is runnign lower rate of tune not quite knowing how long their engines will last
BUT Ducati "took it seriously" as they had a strangle hold on the sponsorship and image of the races in Europe and so would drive SB regs to their advantage.
It used to be fun when noobs woudl turn up in gleaming Ducatis and proclaim them as the fastest bieks because of WSB results. THEN watch them struggle on real roads, real fuel and real service gaps to keep up with 750s never mind 1000cc
My hat is off ot DUcatio for conning the bike market for 20 years
If you look back at the last 3-4 years you'll see BSB ran different regs - minor tweaks - to prevent the absolute domination being able to run a biek with 25% more capacity. New WSB regs are in response to that on a globabl scale.
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MotoGP's rules are stupid. Bring in the 800s "for safety" to slow them down. Straight away, lap times are higher, and trap speeds weren't far behind.
Just liek in F1, you bring in a limit and designers jsut work harder, spend more and get it all back. ( Well not quite, these are harder to ride and MUCH more fuel hungry )
Quote:
Some ridiculously arbitrary fuel limit
No point reducing capcaity if you dont' limit fuel.
Engines can produce LOTS more power if you let them consumes oddles of fuel - see top fuel dragsters
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that serves no purpose than to increase the already overbearing electronic packages, and **** riders who use up to much early on, case in point, Hayden at Qatar. He had to duke it out to open a gap, used too much fuel and got bitched under power by Dovi.
Yeah I'm undecided on this.
Screws it if theres a rider who pushes too hard to start as it then makes a mockery.
But I suggest as they get used to the new bikes/regs then more of the lesser-able riders will go as ROssi did. Fast enough to run out on the in-lap. PERFECT planning.
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And I present, the 2012 engine regs. One engine? I think not!
Well I was talking past/current.
Yes future is looking a mess.
BUT it's makers tryign to "do a Ducati", if they have a good core engine they want to use it. eg Suzuki GSX1000 is THE ENGINE in the market and for Suzuki to do an 800 is a waste of resources. Others have more natural engines to up-scale from 750 to 800 or have already an excellent 800 from last years developments.
MotoGP shoudl be one size engine and that's it.
Once they started dickign about with engine sizes they were doomed.
It was called once called GP500, GP250 and GP125 for a reason.
Problem they have is the same as F1, if they mess aroudn with too many options then they start looking like a lower/competing formula.
MotoGP shoudl be pinnacle and Superbikes be production based 1000cc and SuperSport then 600.
SIple, but for as long as MotoGP and WSB see themselves as competing for the sme audience then it's gonna get messy
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Last edited by Matra et Alpine; 04-18-2010 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
Suzuki GSX1000 is THE ENGINE in the market and for Suzuki to do an 800 is a waste of resources.
Was the engine with the K5. It hasn't been since the they ****ed up with the K7. The days of the big Zook having the biggest numbers on the dyno are gone. Road, the S1000RR has the king motor, and the RSV4 has the goods in WSB.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I think that the most impressive thing about the the first MotoGP race was how docile has the Ducati been turned. Usually it was only Stoner who could tame it and make it fast, and while it seems he can still do it and extract and amazing turn of speed, seeing Hayden up there in the front is a sign that things may be changing..
I think thats largely down to the new motor switching back to the big bang firing order. I'm not convinced its really changed anything between the riders though. Theres still _seconds_ between Stoner and the others. Maybe that'll close up considerably through the year on various tracks however.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:09 PM
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I think thats largely down to the new motor switching back to the big bang firing order. I'm not convinced its really changed anything between the riders though. Theres still _seconds_ between Stoner and the others. Maybe that'll close up considerably through the year on various tracks however.
Stoner being vwery fast is typical indeed, but the big novelty is Hayden running with the leaders. This could signal a big change for Ducati.
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