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  #16  
Old 12-10-2013, 05:43 PM
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Shame. The Chevy SS with more of the current Impala front features badged an Impala appeals more to me than the Charger, which has never done it for me.

RIP Aussie Auto Industry. You will be missed.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2013, 04:11 PM
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How big is the Australian car market?
Around a million cars a year.
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Also, Fisler will be very happy if both the Falcon and Commodore disappear at once. With the 300/Charger they could have winner.
Winner or not they will be in an almost unique position in the world as the only manufacturer of a large powerful rear wheel drive car under AUS$70,000. Of course the current VF SS Commodore with a 6.2 Chev is only $50,000.

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Shame. The Chevy SS with more of the current Impala front features badged an Impala appeals more to me than the Charger, which has never done it for me.

RIP Aussie Auto Industry. You will be missed.
Even more so when GM have decided to retain the Holden badge and try to sell us this with it pasted on. How stupid do we look? (rhetorical)



Now for Holden Commodore from China | carsguide.com.au

Whether it looks good, bad or anything it could look like Katy Perry in a string bikini and it will still be a generic front wheel drive 4 cylinder in a sea of other (likely better made) generic front wheel drive 4 cylinders.
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2013, 11:08 PM
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Around a million cars a year.
That's slightly bigger than the car market in Spain.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2013, 08:10 AM
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There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2013, 12:23 PM
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There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.
I'm sure that if they do that they'll actually discontinue it before they realise that actually it wasn't that bad.

By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.

Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive?
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
I'm sure that if they do that they'll actually discontinue it before they realise that actually it wasn't that bad.

By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.

Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive?
For the non-enthusiast crowd, the only advantages I can think of are better cooling, the ability to fit wider V, H, X, or W engines, and perhaps smugness.
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2013, 02:08 PM
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On the engine side, I know a man who went straight from an E90 330i to an F30 328i.

He has had the newer Bimmer for about three months and although he remembers fondly the old straight six, the new turbo four is just as good, goes pretty much as hard and is a little bit more frugal.

So, when V6s fit perfectly under a front wheel drive car bonnet, Joe Average probably does not need anything else.

Of course if image and/or big power comes into play, then yes rear wheel drive can/does make a difference. But for a Commodore owner (or an Impala or Insignia one for that matter) rear wheel drive is pretty much useless.

Unfortunately.
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2013, 12:44 AM
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RWD isn't that useless for a commode driver.. not for when there's a V8 under the bonnet. Also it's been cheaper to leave it RWD than to re-engineer it for FWD with all new powertrains at the same time.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2013, 05:38 AM
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There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.
I can’t really see it. I think rear wheel drive is dead for Holden after 2017. Most people who just want a car for transport couldn’t give a rats. Most people don’t really “drive” anyway.
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By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.
Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive?
Well in answer to your last question not many people really. As I said above. The advantages for me though are the feedback and general feel when the front wheels are steering and the back ones are putting the power down. I guess it is accentuated with a powerful engine under the bonnet. To me there is nothing like that feeling. And when the “grip goes missing” the fun begins. But it’s obviously not for everyone. That said, while I adored some of my rwd V8s I have never felt the slightest attachment for any front wheel drive car I have owned or driven. They have all been bland means of transport. And the more powerful ones merely highlighted to me how putting power through the driving wheels is plain wrong. But I am a dinosaur as well.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2013, 04:27 PM
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Oh surely, there are advantages, if you can notice and appreciate them. That's why cars like the Toyota GT86 exist, for the three lunatics that understand rear wheel drive (and I'm pretty sure two of those lunatics actually post here).

But in the big scheme of things these are a pretty limited niche. The niche of niches if you will. For most people what is important is the illusion of sportiness, not the actual sportiness.

I recently had a discussion with a family member on that. Now, as everyone knows here I quite like driving, often in the accepted dab-of-oppo manner. When I made the choice for my car I discarded performance because I specifically wanted a rear wheel drive. So I ended with something that handles beautifully but is actually quite slow.

The person I was speaking to, owns the grey A-Class, and my argument was that because I like going places slightly sideways she had a silly premium hatchback with a stupid ride. It's not only that sportiness sells to young people which helps lowering the age of your customer base (a 20 something is bound to buy more car, for longer, than a 60 something) but also that old people like to feel young and therefore sportier cars are bound to generate more sales.

But it gets worse than that. The other car in the house is a magnificent rear wheel drive sports saloon with a V8 engine. Do you want to have a guess at which car is used more often? Nope, you are wrong, it's the stupid Mercedes. So, I'm afraid rear wheel drive really is useless.
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:12 PM
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But in the big scheme of things these are a pretty limited niche.
BMW, Mercedes…. ?


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But it gets worse than that. The other car in the house is a magnificent rear wheel drive sports saloon with a V8 engine. Do you want to have a guess at which car is used more often? Nope, you are wrong, it's the stupid Mercedes. So, I'm afraid rear wheel drive really is useless.
Correlation does not imply causation. We have a V8 Landcruiser and a Mitsubishi Mirage. I know what I would rather drive but the Mirage gets used the most for daily commuting. Because it doesn’t use any fuel that I can observe. If I had a RWD V8 sedan I would probably default more often to that but in the end the most economical car will get used for mere commuting. But I won’t be having any fun.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:07 AM
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BMW, Mercedes…. ?
They are image-led cars. People are buying a roundel or a three-pointed star, not a rear wheel drive vehicle.

And anyway both have switched to front wheel drive, are selling just as well if not even better.
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Correlation does not imply causation. We have a V8 Landcruiser and a Mitsubishi Mirage. I know what I would rather drive but the Mirage gets used the most for daily commuting. Because it doesn’t use any fuel that I can observe. If I had a RWD V8 sedan I would probably default more often to that but in the end the most economical car will get used for mere commuting. But I won’t be having any fun.
Well they do not commute as such, as they are (almost) retired.

And anyway, what's the point of having a rear wheel drive V8 car if you are not using it? Certainly I can see the point if you used the little front wheel drive diesel hatchback for (short) trips to the shops; but if you have to go somewhere which is a bit (or a lot) further and that you might find interesting roads along the way, what the point of not using the proper driver's car?

(Especially if the other option is a stupid A-Class Merc, but that's another story)
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2014, 01:14 PM
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Well your relative is free to like what she likes!
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:29 AM
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They are image-led cars. People are buying a roundel or a three-pointed star, not a rear wheel drive vehicle.
To a large extent they are image led cars but it is a sweeping generalization to presume all buyers buy for that reason alone.

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And anyway both have switched to front wheel drive, are selling just as well if not even better.
These are probably the ones that are led by image driven reasons to buy.

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And anyway, what's the point of having a rear wheel drive V8 car if you are not using it? Certainly I can see the point if you used the little front wheel drive diesel hatchback for (short) trips to the shops; but if you have to go somewhere which is a bit (or a lot) further and that you might find interesting roads along the way, what the point of not using the proper driver's car?
I couldn’t agree more. That is my point.
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