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  #31  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by werty View Post
I can see how it is iconic, but the mustang is definetely more iconic.

Not to mention, the mustang has been in production since day one without stopping. Cant say the same for the beetle.

And I'm pretty sure there are more mustangs than beetles on this earth. (not counting the actual insects of course)
You would be incorrect. The original body style of the Beetle was in production form 1938 until 2003, with an excess of 20 million cars sold, the most of any one body design of all time and in the top 5 total sales of all cars. The Mustang on the other hand has sold 8 million cars but I am willing to wager that in excess of 95% of these cars were sold to the United States and Canada, so the Mustang's effective audience is only about 300 or so million people and a select few other enthusiasts.

Furthermore, I have to disagree throughly with your assertion that the Mustang is more iconic than the Beetle. The Mustang definitely is in the top 10, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Bug is known the world over whereas the Mustang is more more or less known as a US only car. The Beetle was licensed to be built in countries such as Nigeria, Brazil, Mexico, Thailand, and Indonesia.

The fact of the matter is that the VW Beetle is instantly recognizable for North Americans, South Americans, Ocenians, Europeans, Africans, Asians, and even the poor sods working in Antartica. Literaly every continent in the world has been exposed to this vehicle on a scale unmatched by any other car. It is almost certainly the most recognizable car to the people of the world, and I think this is one of the main factors why it is so iconic.

Also, one must consider the absolutely unique and frankly radical look of the Beetle. It stands out much more than a Mustang as far as I am concerned. The Beetle's radical styling is what burns it into people's minds.

The only car in my eyes to come close is the Ford Model T.

After taking this into account, do you still believe that the Mustang is the most iconc car of all time?
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  #32  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:18 PM
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Ford Taurus? I know its newish but come on it kind of rebirthed what the car is. Also the Jeep is iconic, birth of the modern SUV (For better or worse). The Prius is becoming iconic with the Green movement.
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2008, 08:07 PM
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For me, the Ferrari 250 series, especially the GTO, or any generation of Corvette
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:02 PM
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Eventhough it hasn't been produced in near the numbers, and not to mention that I hate them with a passion. The Humvee is pretty damn Iconic. Probably not as much as the Willy's jeep though, I'd put it in the top 5.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:06 PM
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Should probably mention the Lamborghini Countach as well, I knew what it was before I could tie my shoes.
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  #36  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:49 PM
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LR Defender 90 - fairly iconic i would say
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post

After taking this into account, do you still believe that the Mustang is the most iconc car of all time?
Yea

The mustang is a mustang. hah, I dont really know how to put this into words...lets see

the mustang has enormous racing history on the street and track

there are a billion different versions, some selling for millions of dollars (ex: barrett-jackson)

its really the trademark of Ford which I think is the most iconic auto company

according to this...

Volkswagen Beetle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the beetle isnt currently in production anymore and there have been years when none were made

idno, the mustang is a car you can get excited about driving in...a beetle is more of a clown car that you see in a junk yard every now and then and dont think twice about. At least thats the way it is for me

its personal preference anyways
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:16 PM
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The VW Beetle provided transport for the masses. the Mustang simply increased the Birth rate for Baby-Booming America.
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  #39  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
You would be incorrect. The original body style of the Beetle was in production form 1938 until 2003, with an excess of 20 million cars sold, the most of any one body design of all time and in the top 5 total sales of all cars. The Mustang on the other hand has sold 8 million cars but I am willing to wager that in excess of 95% of these cars were sold to the United States and Canada, so the Mustang's effective audience is only about 300 or so million people and a select few other enthusiasts.

Furthermore, I have to disagree throughly with your assertion that the Mustang is more iconic than the Beetle. The Mustang definitely is in the top 10, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Bug is known the world over whereas the Mustang is more more or less known as a US only car. The Beetle was licensed to be built in countries such as Nigeria, Brazil, Mexico, Thailand, and Indonesia.

The fact of the matter is that the VW Beetle is instantly recognizable for North Americans, South Americans, Ocenians, Europeans, Africans, Asians, and even the poor sods working in Antartica. Literaly every continent in the world has been exposed to this vehicle on a scale unmatched by any other car. It is almost certainly the most recognizable car to the people of the world, and I think this is one of the main factors why it is so iconic.

Also, one must consider the absolutely unique and frankly radical look of the Beetle. It stands out much more than a Mustang as far as I am concerned. The Beetle's radical styling is what burns it into people's minds.

The only car in my eyes to come close is the Ford Model T.

After taking this into account, do you still believe that the Mustang is the most iconc car of all time?
Radical styling? I have to disagree. The DS is radical, the Beetle isn't.
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  #40  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werty View Post
Yea

The mustang is a mustang. hah, I dont really know how to put this into words...lets see

the mustang has enormous racing history on the street and track

there are a billion different versions, some selling for millions of dollars (ex: barrett-jackson)

its really the trademark of Ford which I think is the most iconic auto company

according to this...

Volkswagen Beetle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the beetle isnt currently in production anymore and there have been years when none were made

idno, the mustang is a car you can get excited about driving in...a beetle is more of a clown car that you see in a junk yard every now and then and dont think twice about. At least thats the way it is for me

its personal preference anyways
I don't think it is about personal preference per se. It is about rational and deliberate thought and analysis resulting in a solution. I think on your case, Werty, you are letting your own personal preferences interfere with your judgment - an understandable predicament. If you were to look at the situation in a time independent country independent fashion, I think you may being to realize that he Beetle is more of an icon than the Mustang, and beyond that, the most iconic car ever built.

My other friend initially thought of the Mustang and he is definitely deeply engrossed in 50s-70s American car culture but I managed to get him it change his mind.

It is first important to establish what exactly an icon is. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the applicable definition of icon is: an important and enduring symbol. In my eyes, there may be one criterion only.

Recognizability. An icon is not an icon at all if it is not recognizable. In the application of cars, I think distinctiveness is an addendum to this quality. Also one must consider the prevalence of the icon. This is why I believe that the Mustang falls short. Though extremely well known in America, the Mustang is not overly well known worldwide. As I mentioned before, the Beetle is recognizable in many urban and even suburban areas of Earth. More than that, the Beetle exhibits a distinctiveness that likely no other car has, and very likely, no other car ever will.

If there ever were a car that the people of earth could chose to represent all cars, even though it was so dissimilar to other cars of it's lifespan the Beetle I think would be the resounding choice of the people of the world. In this aspect, I think that the Mustang would come nowhere even close to the Beetle. The Beetle stands as the car of all people, living up to Volkswagen's name, truly, "The People's Car".

Furthermore, another criterion that could be included is impact or significance - IB4R I believe seemed to think this was a vital. I am of two minds as to whether it should be included in the definition of an iconic car but have included my analysis anyways.

In terms of significance, my rudimentary and admittedly incomplete analysis would tentatively rank the Beetle third. The most important car ever built was definitely the firs car ever made, whether it be the Benz Patent Motor Wagon or any of the other argued first cars, this surely takes the number one spot. Number two of somewhat predictably is the car that brought motoring to the masses for the first time, the Model T; Henry Ford's ingenious product of the synthesis of mass production and car manufacturing. In third sits the Beetle, the second generation of car for the masses that allowed poor people the world over to afford a motor vehicle - surely one of the most important and impactual cars of all time.

In terms of impact, the Mustang while certainly one of the most important and influential cars in American history does not hold a candle to the Beetle in terms of impact or significance. The Mustang started the pony car revolution in the States but but this simply pales in comparison to car that made motoring available for the masses.

After all of this explanation anyone out there still thinks that there is a car more iconic than the Beetle that isn't the Model T, I would suggest you give it some more thought and get back to me.

I hope I got you Werty!
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  #41  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
The VW Beetle provided transport for the masses. the Mustang simply increased the Birth rate for Baby-Booming America.
Come now, the Mustang was a big deal in the States. It brought performance to the mainstream customer to an extent that no other car had done before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Radical styling? I have to disagree. The DS is radical, the Beetle isn't.
You think so? I think the DS is pretty wild and possibly more wild than the Bug, but I think independent of that, the Bug is one funky looking creature. The fact that it literally looks mildly like a Beetle is pretty astonishing.

The 2CV comes to mind as well to be honest when I think of the DS and Beetle.
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  #42  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
Come now, the Mustang was a big deal in the States. It brought performance to the mainstream customer to an extent that no other car had done before.

The Mustang simply proves my belief in good marketing. anyone who thinks a standard Mustang is anything sporty.......
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  #43  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:48 AM
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Come now, the Mustang was a big deal in the States. It brought performance to the mainstream customer to an extent that no other car had done before.
If I may interject ..

It's always risky to claim absolutes, and especially in the motor car spectrum.

I would venture that the Ford Model T was in its day viewed as a spritely performer and of course was much raced. Yet the Tin Lizzie was about as mainstream as any car could ever get. Then there was the first cheap mass-market V8 in the form of Henry's 1930. Also Chevrolet's V8 lightweights from 1955

Every nation with an automotive industry built its own icons. In the US the Mustang was a 1960s phenomenon in a vast field of timeline candidates, from Duesenberg to Checker Marathon. Fiat Toppolino and the 500 for Italy. Jaguar's E Type and Austin 7 for Old Blighty. And in my country the ute and Holden car. The Trabbie too and 2CV. And so many more, in so many nations, in so many eras ..

However the field thins markedly for worldwide status. Original Mini and Porsche 911 are not nearly as convincing to my mind as VW Beetle aka Hitler's Revenge. However the astoundingly popular Model T became not just as an iconic car - but icon of THE car - and remains very hard to beat imho
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  #44  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
Radical styling? I have to disagree. The DS is radical, the Beetle isn't.
Only because you're used to the design of the Beetle, it's so familiar.

Compare it to other cars that were launched around that era!

The MG TC, for example... or the Ford Coupé... or the relevant Holdens... it was a pretty radical departure, I think.
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  #45  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantAnAudiRS6 View Post
Only because you're used to the design of the Beetle, it's so familiar.

Compare it to other cars that were launched around that era!

The MG TC, for example... or the Ford Coupé... or the relevant Holdens... it was a pretty radical departure, I think.
Was it?
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