Page 12 of 14 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 197

Thread: Ferrari 458 Italia 2009-2015

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    For Tax Purposes, Cayman Islands
    Posts
    14,579
    If the 159 was designed to appeal to people who wouldn't buy it(Ze Germans), as opposed to a market that no longer exists in sustainable numbers (the Alfisti), And the General Public (who are after a prestigious mark, not a glorified italian FIAT offshoot) where does that leave Alfa Romeo?
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    If the 159 was designed to appeal to people who wouldn't buy it(Ze Germans), as opposed to a market that no longer exists in sustainable numbers (the Alfisti), And the General Public (who are after a prestigious mark, not a glorified italian FIAT offshoot) where does that leave Alfa Romeo?
    Looking for a new market/image.
    The MiTo was probably a good idea to raise numbers, attract people to the brand and a low development cost (it's still based on the G.Punto after all). The Giulietta could steal some customers to other brands, but we should at least have a look at it in the flesh, let alone, drive it etc.

    Then...what? Limbo.
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  3. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    For Tax Purposes, Cayman Islands
    Posts
    14,579
    I agree - whats their point of difference? whats their focus?

    At the moment they are trying to be at once a premium sector champion and mass-market genius. the MiTo is probably the right size and price for what they should be competing at, but in reality the only way to get Alfa up to a standard where they can genuinely compete with BMW, Audi et al is to go larger.

    While they might not be the largest volume sellers, never underestimate the value of a Halo model such as the 7-er or A8. I mean even VW is still basking in the technological brilliance of the Phaeton.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  4. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    I agree - whats their point of difference? whats their focus?

    At the moment they are trying to be at once a premium sector champion and mass-market genius. the MiTo is probably the right size and price for what they should be competing at, but in reality the only way to get Alfa up to a standard where they can genuinely compete with BMW, Audi et al is to go larger.

    While they might not be the largest volume sellers, never underestimate the value of a Halo model such as the 7-er or A8. I mean even VW is still basking in the technological brilliance of the Phaeton.
    I think VW halo car is the Touareg, which is even worst.
    I'm not sure if Alfa right now can afford a large sedan (given an SUV should be out of question). their experiments with Maserati went all wrong, too expensive to be an Alfa or to cheap to be a Maserati.
    The Thesis didn't help Lancia at all, and the 166 didn't do a better job at Alfa, but they were both excellent.

    Probably forcing a bit the relationship with Maserati, with a hint of Ferrari as well, could have helped a lot. A lot of money may have been required, but I think people now are again into Maserati because they know/think that's like a little Ferrari. The same could potentially work with Alfa Romeo, to a smaller scale. They did that with the 8C, marginally.

    What Alfa could do right now is sticking with the smaller cars like the MiTo and the Giulietta, get the new Giulia (already under development and testing) and then something like a smaller 911, something very sporty in the 60/70.000 € range, avoiding completely the executive sedans which no one would buy no matter what.
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  5. #170
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Helmond, NL
    Posts
    6
    Ehm..just throwing this out there, but...is this really about the 458 or is everybody just going offtopic? 'Cause I'd really like to see more (very) highres pics of my favourite Ferrari of the past 3 months
    Forza Ferrari!

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    For Tax Purposes, Cayman Islands
    Posts
    14,579
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    I think VW halo car is the Touareg, which is even worst.
    I'm not sure if Alfa right now can afford a large sedan (given an SUV should be out of question). their experiments with Maserati went all wrong, too expensive to be an Alfa or to cheap to be a Maserati.
    The Thesis didn't help Lancia at all, and the 166 didn't do a better job at Alfa, but they were both excellent.
    I'm thinking something less...quirky. Understand that Audi, BMW etc weren't considered luxury brands until very recently, and they've had to build that from releasing large cars that, in all honesty, weren't that attractive or successful.
    Probably forcing a bit the relationship with Maserati, with a hint of Ferrari as well, could have helped a lot. A lot of money may have been required, but I think people now are again into Maserati because they know/think that's like a little Ferrari. The same could potentially work with Alfa Romeo, to a smaller scale. They did that with the 8C, marginally.
    Maserati is cool because it's somewhat off-kilter, and at that price range you don't pay to stay in line with the rest of your equivalent cars.

    The problem Alfa Romeo has (and indeed this is a problem that struck Rover, Saab and Volvo) is the balance between volume manufacturing and luxury/sport specialisation, you can be left in that sweet spot where you're making a profit-per-car that is superior to your competitors, and the shift either side (too many cars, not enough profit) can kill you dead.

    The 8C was a very pretty stopgap that, engineering nonwithstanding, was a folly at best. All a tie up with Maserati will do is devalue the Maserati brand.

    What Alfa could do right now is sticking with the smaller cars like the MiTo and the Giulietta, get the new Giulia (already under development and testing) and then something like a smaller 911, something very sporty in the 60/70.000 € range, avoiding completely the executive sedans which no one would buy no matter what.
    This is an interesting point - there is definately a market for stylish coupes and high-end GT's of an Italian namesake, the problem is that Alfa Romeo will automatically hit a ceiling within it's own organisation because Maserati commands much higher prices and works within that segment in a superior brand fashion.

    Working Smaller means it's forced to Compete with FIAT, which will turn it into a badge engineering exercise.

    Working with sporty coupes is too niche for Alfa to survive in its current format, but it seems specialise or die. Get back to a few key models and hone in on what the brand actually stands for, and work from there.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  7. #172
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    Quote Originally Posted by IBrake4Rainbows View Post
    This is an interesting point - there is definately a market for stylish coupes and high-end GT's of an Italian namesake, the problem is that Alfa Romeo will automatically hit a ceiling within it's own organisation because Maserati commands much higher prices and works within that segment in a superior brand fashion.

    Working Smaller means it's forced to Compete with FIAT, which will turn it into a badge engineering exercise.

    Working with sporty coupes is too niche for Alfa to survive in its current format, but it seems specialise or die. Get back to a few key models and hone in on what the brand actually stands for, and work from there.
    Maserati still survives with Ferrari on top of its head, especially the California.
    Alfa could do the same with a coupe (and cabriolet as well) slotted under the GranTurismo, I think there is plenty of room for that.

    Alfa already is a heavy-badge engineering, so no problem with that.
    I was enormously surprised by the differences between the Croma and the 159 in basically all aspects. I had to check the speed/revs to be sure the gearing wasn't different, but I suspect the flywheel is. The different suspensions really do make a difference, and so the different cockpit layout, really driver oriented.
    That's the badge engineering I can live with. Same with MiTo and G.Punto (even if I drove only the G.Punto). Damn, I even enjoyed the Ypsilon, while the Punto mk2 (which the Lancia is based on) is just a cheap piece of metal to commute.
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Forza! View Post
    Ehm..just throwing this out there, but...is this really about the 458 or is everybody just going offtopic? 'Cause I'd really like to see more (very) highres pics of my favourite Ferrari of the past 3 months
    ditto....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #174
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    here you go
    Attached Images Attached Images
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Modena
    Posts
    9,826
    aaand more
    Attached Images Attached Images
    KFL Racing Enterprises - Kicking your ass since 2008

    *cough* http://theitalianjunkyard.blogspot.com/ *cough*

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rozenburg, Holland
    Posts
    27,329
    I can clearly see the lines of my C5 in this car....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    33,489
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    Alfa already is a heavy-badge engineering, so no problem with that.
    I was enormously surprised by the differences between the Croma and the 159 in basically all aspects. I had to check the speed/revs to be sure the gearing wasn't different, but I suspect the flywheel is. The different suspensions really do make a difference, and so the different cockpit layout, really driver oriented.
    That's the badge engineering I can live with. Same with MiTo and G.Punto (even if I drove only the G.Punto). Damn, I even enjoyed the Ypsilon, while the Punto mk2 (which the Lancia is based on) is just a cheap piece of metal to commute.
    The 159 and the Croma are very different cars. If anything the 159 is quite bespoke and very Alfa in a large percentage. Wheter it's the right type of Alfa or not is an entriely different question.

    I also disagree that BMW is a luxury brand, and Mercedes-benz to a large extent too, at least now. They, like many other car makers, including Jaguar, Lancia, Saab, Volvo and others are premium manufacturers, some more successful than others. Premium is the word the marketing guys invented for what used to be car makers that made well engineered and made cars but without charging a million like Maserati, Ferrari or Bentley, to name just a few, did.

    And many, many years ago that was fine. Each one of those firms had its own distinctive character and could survive on their own doing cars as they pleased. There was room for everyone, parlty because you didn't need very high volumes these days and greed was as present as today, so a bit of profit would do. And then, greed came, and globalisation, and italian cars started to rust, and british cars electrics went berserk, and all of a sudden you need to sell a million cars just to break even.

    So Triumph went, the Rover, now Saab. Will Alfa Romeo be next? Who knows, but in any case prospects don't look good for premium manufacturers that aren't German. If they are generalist or luxury that's fine, but that middle grown that sits between 30.000 and 70.000€ seems to be completely dominated by the Germans and it doesn't look like their reign is going to end any time soon. Only Volvo and Jaguar seem to be more or less surviving in the Green Hell.

    Alfa Romeo has also another problem, massive overlap inside FGA with just about everyone. But I guess that's for another post.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Southeast US
    Posts
    5,582
    "If you would like this color for your new 458 Italia....It will cost you an additional $26,981 and delay your delivery about a month. The color is called Giallo Tristrato....which means its a 3 stage yellow."

    Ferrari of Atlanta
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wishing I was in Moscow, Idaho
    Posts
    2,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Dino Scuderia View Post
    "If you would like this color for your new 458 Italia....It will cost you an additional $26,981 and delay your delivery about a month. The color is called Giallo Tristrato....which means its a 3 stage yellow."

    Ferrari of Atlanta
    So does that mean it's going to pass up chrome as the pimp color of choice?
    Big cities suck

    "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Napolis

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Really useful performance listings...
    By Egg Nog in forum Technical forums
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 04-18-2021, 05:13 PM
  2. 2010 Turkish Grand Prix (May 28-30)
    By Wouter Melissen in forum Racing forums
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 06-08-2010, 04:52 PM
  3. My new list of Ferrari Pictures
    By DarkPhenix in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 03-29-2007, 05:21 PM
  4. Ferrari Challenge
    By DarkPhenix in forum Multimedia
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-19-2004, 03:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •