Just 6 drivers at USA Grand Prix

[Quiggs]

That's an... unconventional view to say the least.

Sport is not to provide entertainment?

So... all of those people down at the park on a Sunday having a kick about with a football... they aren't doing that for their own entertainment?

And without hundreds of thousands of fans paying hundreds of dollars there wouldn't be any F1 racing at all.

And I think the fans are expecting "entertainment" for their money - hence the obvious displeasure when they missed out on Sunday.

Is a race any less of a race if no one watches it? Is the Indy 500, which sells 250,000+ seats, more of a race than the USGP that only sells 150,000 at best?

sport- An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

Nowhere is it mentioned that someone has to watch it or be entertained.

[Deckard]

Sorry but I still maintain that Michelins idea of a chicane was an extremely clever piece of spin doctoring. They knew that the FIA would never agree to it. And look at the result, people are blaming the FIA and not Michelin for Sunday's debacle.

You've have to give them credit for that at least.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I'll agree it seems like a calculated move, but would slowing down a piece of the track, but causing more cornering forces on the tyre, really help their longevity?

[scottie300z]

Ok, let's take this one step further and reschedule the race.
First thing: The seasons schedule is based on long term weather forecast (I know that they can't be exact but they give you some information).
Second: let's pretend I'm a team manager (Emperor's Automobile Team Manufacturer Entity; EAT ME ) and your the FIA representative:
Ring, ring.
-Hello?
-Is this the FIA?
-Yes it is.
-So, you want to cancel the race and move it to the end of the season?
-Yes, we do, because I spoke with God and he assured me that no Michelin tyre will ever explode in the end of the season.
-Fine, fine but WHO THE HELL WILL PAY FOR THIS EVENT: TRANSPORT OF ALL CARS, TYRES, EQUIPEMENT, CREW? Because I won't pay a whole lot of money extra just cause some tyre blew up.
-But it will please the fans and...
-I don't give a sh!t We have our own schedule of test drives, plans for the next season, and yes our workers do have some well deserved vacation when the season is over. So I don't see why should we change all our plans and spend a lot of money extra just cause other teams were not prepared. We are prepared today and we will race today.
-But... but.... the fans.... and the tyre, and Ferrari will win so we can't allow it.

Actually yeah that could happen, well more or less. Im not saying its the best way to go but it was an option. And you know what, the teams would have raced it, All the FIA rep had to explain is that sometimes crap happens but this was the best way to go in order to have a race the resembles normality, and to suck it up. Those racing teams wouldnt complain if they were threatened w/ a bigger fine then the cost of going to the race again. But my point was that it was possible, i wouldnt have agreed w/ it if it happened

[Cotterik]

I'll agree it seems like a calculated move, but would slowing down a piece of the track, but causing more cornering forces on the tyre, really help their longevity?

martin brundle showed viewers on sunday that the track following from turn 13 at indianapolis had undergone regeneration, giving it a new finish which increased grip between the tyre and the track, this may have disagreed with the Michelin tyres and caused Ralfs tyre to blow at high speed. If that is the case then an extra corner would not have been as risky.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

But it still would have had a significant risk.

When the Tyre manufacturer tells you that the Tyres won't work, and you continue, it's an accident waiting to happen.

It's a bad situation, but I think the teams did the right thing. After all, the Brilliant men of F1 in the past might have continued, but there all dead now.

That should tell you something.

[Jack_Bauer]

This indicates that the safety issue would have been removed if they adapted their speeds. As the B-cars rightly saw no reason why they had to slow down and the chicane was not an option the events emerged as we saw them.

Yes but I don't think just telling the drivers to "slow down" was a feasible solution to the problem, for two reasons:

a) You cannot have a race with 14 cars taking a corner at <100mph with the other 6 travelling at over 190mph. It's just a recipe for disaster. You cannot attempt to solve a safety problem by creating another safety problem.

b) There is the issue of how slow is "slow"? Michelin didn't know exactly what was wrong with the tyres so it was impossible to say what was an entirely safe speed. The idea of putting a chicane in was to slow down the cars as much as physically possible. If, for example, Alonso was ahead of Raikkonen by a few seconds, what's to stop Raikkonen just giving it a bit more throttle and going faster to hunt down his rival? Then Alonso may respond in kind and he too would begin to push it harder on turn 13, and thus straining the tyres and jeopardising safety. The FIA suggested putting a speedtrap on turn 13 and penalising people who went too fast but that to me is frankly ridiculous. Would anyone seriously have bought that, having speed cameras on a race track? It's a motor race not the M25 for Christ's sake!

I'm not saying the chicane was an ideal solution but there wasn't an ideal solution. And you say the B-cars would be at a disadvantge because of the chicane, but that is more than compensated for by the fact that the M-cars would've started at the back of the grid and would not have scored points anyway. All the B-cars had to do was finish the race and they would be guaranteed the points.

The teams could also have notified FIA and the organisers much more in advance what they were planning to do, also in the interest of the public that was left absolutely in the cold about what was about to happen.

I agree. It was a bit daft of the teams to do the formation lap and then retire. I think the idea was that effectively they would be classed as retirements on safety grounds and try to avoid punishment. Not turning up to race at all would be seen as a breach of contract with FOM, IMS and the FIA and they would be severely punished for it. As it happens they have been charged with "bringing the sport into disrepute" anyway so it didn't really work for them regardless.

Your comment is the essence of the conspiracy theory. Such posts just create the spirit in which these theories foster.

My post was intended to show how these conspiracy theories come about, not to endorse them. I do not believe that what happened on Sunday was part of any conspiracy theory, it came about as a result of certian people in high places burying their heads in the sand and not looking at the bigger picture IMO. From 6:30 am on Sunday morning, when Michelin sent round the letter clarifying that under no circumstances could their tyres be used on the track as it was, everyone should've got round a table and thrashed out some sort deal that would've brought about some kind of proper race. There were no ideal solutions, but surely anything would've been better than what actually happened on Sunday. Surely the powers that be would've realised that failure to take drastic and unprecedented action would result in complete catastrophe for the sport. Any hope of a successful future in the US was about to be extinguished unless something was done, and it wasn't.

The FIA say that the "chicane wasn't an option", but I believe that if all ten teams had clubbed together and shown a bit of solidarity and knocked on the FIA's door and said, "Look, here's what we want to do, we won't race unless these provisos are in place...." and outlined that they wanted a chicane, rearranged grid, and Michelin runners to be exempt from points, then the FIA would've HAD to compromise. As it was, with only 9 teams being firmly behind the proposal the FIA couldn't agree because it would've been unfair on Ferrari.

Sunday should've been about damage limitation. Once it had sunk in that a proper race was simply impossible due to Michelin's cock-up, all parties involved in Formula 1 should've done all they could to try and salvage something from the impending wreckage. I believe that the 9 teams and even Bernie Ecclestone tried to do just that, but the other party's attitude of, "It's not our problem" was woefully short sighted. It IS their problem because by failing to see sense and work out some sort of compromise, they sat back and watched unprecedented and irreparable damage be done the sport as a whole. They didn't break any rules or regulations, but their inaction led to worldwide embarrasment, ridicule, disbelief and hatred around the world for them and their sport. I don't belive they did it in any malicious, conspiratorial way, they did it in a self-centred, naive and foolhardy way.

Now the FIA is trying to bring charges against those who did the MOST to salvage some kind of sensible solution from the mess of Sunday morning. As to the charges of bringing the sport into disrepute etc, all the teams will have to say is that they retired on grounds of safety for the drivers, staff and spectators at Indy. And it is true that technically they did, so I don't see how they can be found guilty. I can see how they can be charged with "failing to notify the stewards of their intentions," but that's about it. The only people who are truly guilty of failing in their duties and bringing about Sunday's farce are Michelin. It is they who should be facing the World Motorsport Council under severe charges, not their teams. The FIA's decision NOT to charge Michelin is utterly baffling, and it is this which serves to undermine the already shaky reputation of the FIA and gives fuel to the fires of the conspiracy theorists.

[Quiggs]

The FIA say that the "chicane wasn't an option", but I believe that if all ten teams had clubbed together and shown a bit of solidarity and knocked on the FIA's door and said, "Look, here's what we want to do, we won't race unless these provisos are in place...." and outlined that they wanted a chicane, rearranged grid, and Michelin runners to be exempt from points, then the FIA would've HAD to compromise. As it was, with only 9 teams being firmly behind the proposal the FIA couldn't agree because it would've been unfair on Ferrari.

So who would have been liable had someone been injured or killed on this untested, unapproved circuit? You can't just go change the course layout after qualifying and testing. With how close F1 cars are to the limit, any change in that limit may result in lots of wrecked cars.

[Jack_Bauer]

So who would have been liable had someone been injured or killed on this untested, unapproved circuit? You can't just go change the course layout after qualifying and testing. With how close F1 cars are to the limit, any change in that limit may result in lots of wrecked cars.

True, I know it's pretty far from a perfect solution, but one that 9 out of ten teams were willing to accept the risk on. I still think it's a safer solution than having 7 out of 10 cars running at a completely different speed to the others on the same piece of race track. Plus the chicane would have had a definitive limiting effect on the speed, whereas just asking them to slow down is far too vague to be confident that it would be safe.

Also I think that if they had come to a compromise early in the day (as they should have) then they would've been able to run a 30min testing session to gather some data and for the drivers to familiarise themselves. Obviously the whole parc ferme situation would have to go out of the window, but as the suggestion was to put the Michelin teams to the back of the grid anyway I wouldn't have thought that would be a major issue.

Anyway, it's all pretty academic now. Now attention is gonna focus on how the sport deals with the aftermath. I think it's odds-on that "very badly" is the likely outcome!

As expected the retaliations from the accused teams have already started. This is exactly what I was fearful of, this whole situation has been turned around from not being at all about Sunday's race, but about the ongoing dispute between the warring factions within the sport. Just when we thought we were having a great season of racing it has again been reduced to this petty back-biting between the FIA and the "GPWC" teams....

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_20019.shtml

and

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/story_20027.shtml

"Max Mosley categorically forbid the introduction of that chicane, and he's going to have some serious questions to answer as to why he actually took that decision," the Minardi boss told the BBC.

"I have heard many, many calls for Mosley’s resignation. I would echo that.

"I don't think there is any credible explanation for what went on. I think the president of the FIA has to have a very close look at his position, because many people think his position is untenable."

Oh deary me

[henk4]

The FIA suggested putting a speedtrap on turn 13 and penalising people who went too fast but that to me is frankly ridiculous. Would anyone seriously have bought that, having speed cameras on a race track? It's a motor race not the M25 for Christ's sake!

How do you think they measure the speed in the pit lane? With hand clocks by FIA officials?

[woodstock827]

adding the chicane would not only mean the teams take risk, but the FIA and the track owner also have to take the risk which I seriously doubt they would. Afterall they're (supposingly) to be responsible for providing a safe racing environment.
I'd think the M-teams would not have been able to race no matter what they did.

the withdrawal penalty is not that much... i think i read $25000/car somewhere. If the teams officially withdraw, then they can consider cancelling or postponing. But they pulled out after formation lap, which pretty much means the race has already started. Can't change anything by that time...

And i'm sorrie I should've been more clear. Sport is not to entertain the audience. Yes the FIA is responsible for both protecting the sport (eg. enforcing rules) and keeping the sport alive (eg. keeping audience). however, if i have to pick one of the two, i'd protect the sport first, to make sure if things happen next time, they won't have an excuse.

[henk4]

the withdrawal penalty is not that much... i think i read $25000/car somewhere.

add one zero, it is a quarter million.

[woodstock827]

still not that much comparing to annual F1 spending...

[henk4]

still not that much comparing to annual F1 spending...

There have been days that such amounts were not on my bank account,

[Coventrysucks]

Is a race any less of a race if no one watches it? Is the Indy 500, which sells 250,000+ seats, more of a race than the USGP that only sells 150,000 at best?

Nowhere is it mentioned that someone has to watch it or be entertained.

So sport has nothing to do with providing entertainment. To anyone, not even those participating.

Interesting theory.

So people don't take up go-karting at age 12 for fun when they begin their career as a race driver.

Michael Schumacher gets no enjoyment out of it, just does it to prove a point, and get some money.