Jackass Clarkson destroys 911

[Matra et Alpine]

If that logic would actually be applied there would be no historic cars left at all. It's rediculous to expect a repair to any car to be worth the money. I'm positive that you have spent more on your cars than they have increased in worth. So it would have been best to send them to the breakers or let Idiot Clarkson destroy it. Also I don't appreciate being called a noob.

Wouter you've missed the basics of car economics.

Once a car becomes less available then the value of that car to potential owersn becomes higher and so teh £5000 repair produces a car that can be sodl for £10,000 and then it's viable.

Thought that was obvious

Of course the idiots who fuelled the classic car boon of the 80s got their fingers burnt badly and we are now in a ore realistic realm where some carsdo NOT get salvaged and prices are more "sensible" ( well apart form the serious idiots who will still shell out for the cachet )

erm you dont' like the "noob" ? then please read ?
I've made it clear I've already let MANY Bagheera's go the the scrap yard.
I even explained at length the economics of it and why I'm at three
Sorry W, that is worthy of an wned:

AS I had said, everyone would like cars saved as long as it's not THEM having to put in the effort and the cost. The world doesnt' work like that.
Yes, sometimes we lose things forever ... but in general the last 50 years has created a realisation of the value of "history" much more than the previous 100 years had ( with the exception of hine furniture and jewellery )
So as the 911s become rarer then less will go to the scrap yard. Until then you have to jsut accept THAT is economics at play

[henk4]

Go to third world areas and village food is the previous days village pet

Any analogy has its flaws, but in this case:
go to third world areas and try to discover slaughterhouses.
go to third wolrd countries and try discover 911s

[Wouter Melissen]

erm you dont' like the "noob" ? then please read ?
I've made it clear I've already let MANY Bagheera's go the the scrap yard.
I even explained at length the economics of it and why I'm at three
Sorry W, that is worthy of an wned:

The use of the word noob is a sign of having no respect for the person you are discussing with. If your only desire is to 'own the noobs' I have lost all respect for your discussion standards regardless on wether I agree with you or not.

Thank you,
WM

[henk4]

Once a car becomes less available then the value of that car to potential owersn becomes higher and so teh £5000 repair produces a car that can be sodl for £10,000 and then it's viable.

This is very sound thinking but why is it that you regularly see cars being advertised, of which people claim that they recently (so after the 1980's boom) spent a lot of money on, which is many times even more than the current asking price???
If your approach is taken up by everybody, then we would not see any old Maserati or Lamborghini on the road again. You can buy an Espada for say 15,000 (whatever currency) put 25,000 worth of repairs/refurbishment in it, but don't expects that it will be worth 40,000 after that exercise.

[McReis]

Clarkson DVDs outsell almost every other car DVD added together.
Time to get over it folks that we have a sense of humour and you don't

Clarkson gives his audience what they want to see.
It's called "enterntainment" ..... if you dont' get an audience you don't get the funding to do it

If that's having a sense of humour, congrats on yours but I don't want one.

Clarks gives the audience what the audience wants to see? Ok. Then Wouter should close this website and make a website only about tuners, plastic bits, giant stereos, fart cans and such. Because at the days we're living, the real classic car lovers are a fraction of those who claim to be "into cars".

But I will say, culture devolves as we allow it.

My point exactly.

[Matra et Alpine]

This is very sound thinking but why is it that you regularly see cars being advertised, of which people claim that they recently (so after the 1980's boom) spent a lot of money on, which is many times even more than the current asking price???

Because the world is full of people who put emotion ahead of intelligence.
Smart buyers find teh peopel who've spent thousands and can pick it up for less
I've an offer in on a Murena because the buyer has spent £3000 on doing it up. MUCH more than the car is worth. We'll see. The point comes when sellers realise they have to cut their losses.
The "best" are kit cars. Some will spend THOUSANDS putting in fantastic interiors or highly tuned engines without investigating market prices. it's NEVER recovered. The worst losers in kit cars are those who PAY others to build them. You can NEVER recoup it

If your approach is taken up by everybody, then we would not see any old Maserati or Lamborghini on the road again. You can buy an Espada for say 15,000 (whatever currency) put 25,000 worth of repairs/refurbishment in it, but don't expects that it will be worth 40,000 after that exercise.

Again, you've missed that as there are less of them the cachet grows and the VALUE increases so the money anyone can afford to invest to restore and run it increases. So they are saved...... jstu not tens of thousands of them
It's supply and demand economics at it's simplest.
At some point you MIGHT be able to get more than 40K for it and then it makes sense.
All of this also ignores the illogical love some owners have for cars.
( Even in the UK there is a devout Marina owner who brings his car to EVERY show !! )
Bagheera will NEVER recoup what I invested. But it's a hobby I pay for. I don't expect someone ELSE to pay to make my hobby cheaper tho' by keepign more cars on the road

The compaints abotu JC and the 911 MIGHT have a case if the complainer were upset at not being able to find a 911 at all -- rather than not finding it as cheap as can be afforded. That there are plenty then it's plain economics. After all a 911 is NOT a particularly unique car.
( there's a GTA shell is about to go to the scrappies if nobody in the Alpine club takes it off the current owners hands. It will go. Because there are plenty others around !!! )

A friend bought an E-type basket case for £20K at the height of the classic car bubble , spent another £20-30K on it and it's NOW worth about £25K. Just like the stock market, classic car values can go down as well as up.
LOTS of folks learned that noob lesson the hard way in the 80s. I thought it made it VERY clear not to get too emotional over cars

[Sauc3]

Wouter you've missed the basics of car economics.

Does passion come anywhere into this? Or have I just not read that bit yet.

[Cotterik]

haha clarkson is such a legend. that 911 sounds realy unhealthy if you listen closely, it was probably due for scrap or something like that anyway. Seeing a porsche being destroyed isnt something you see every day! i find it entertaining

[henk4]

I thought it made it VERY clear not to get too emotional over cars

can I advise you to read the words underneath the UCP logo right above? If nobody gets emotional about cars, we would not be having this conversation because this site would not exist.

[Cotterik]

wait, does it strike anyone that porsche maybe gave clarkson the 911 as a mission to try and destroy it to prove how tough it is?

do you still get emotional when he destroys a Lada?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3xoRQd0dLk

[Roy Visser]

You guys do know that this wasnt in Top Gear?


for your information also, the body was beyond repair, as was the engine. Which they even took out for parts before the explosion (someone mentioning it ran fine? I dont know if you ever heard a 70's Porsche, but thats not the sound what it makes )

the body was so far gone, that noone in the right state of mind would want it as a restoration project, there are simply far more porsches who are allot easier to restore.


i myself am a porsche enthusiast, and i dont like seeing the car like that, but stating that it was a perfectly fine car to begin with..

[Matra et Alpine]

The use of the word noob is a sign of having no respect for the person you are discussing with. If your only desire is to 'own the noobs' I have lost all respect for your discussion standards regardless on wether I agree with you or not.

Thank you,
WM

erm the word "noob" was used to indicate lack of knowledge and understanding in an area in a humourous way.

from wiki ( I know a noob to expect it to be truthful )
A newbie is a newcomer to a particular field, the term being commonly used on the Internet, where it might refer to new, inexperienced, or ignorant users of a game, a newsgroup, an operating system or the Internet itself. The term is generally regarded as an insult, although in many cases more experienced/knowledgeable people use it in purposes of negative reinforcement, urging “newbies” to learn more about the field or area in question.

THe comments re classic car ownership didn't reflect the experience in the Alpine, Matra, brit-cars and kit car clubs and owners in the UK. I tagged your inputs as "noob" in the classic car and restoration market. ( Probably highly skewed by your attendance to events at teh TOP end of the spectrum. Drop in on yrou local classic car club meet for the other side fo the fence )

You know me by now W, I really dont' care what anyone on an internet thinks of me as long as it relfects what I have said and supported. I only get "upset" when it doesn't reflect what I've said ( ie implies lying ). Beyond that my words are me. I've tried explaining farily simple concepts which you ignored for reasons byond me and led to the "noob". If it upset you that much then fine. If you think you DID understand it but I failed to se that in yrou replies then I'll retract it immediately as my error. BUT I've read over it again. I still think that you're being unrealistic in thinking SOMEONE ELSE should throw money away saving cars.

We've gone a million miles from the main point and that was it was funny to those it was aimed at.

[Matra et Alpine]

Does passion come anywhere into this? Or have I just not read that bit yet.

Of course it does and already stated -- you think my family appreciates having 3 Bageeras and bits spread over the house ?

BUT an individuals "passion" shouldn't be based on someone else "funding it"

Keeping uneconomical cars on the road is a passion for those who undertake it. EXPECTING someone else to keep the car on the road is a bit much tho'

( I've had guys emotioanlly blackmail me to remove Bagheeras. Tellign me plainly that it will go to the scrap yard. Liek I'm supposed to pay to move it and store it for some "greater purpose" )

[Matra et Alpine]

can I advise you to read the words underneath the UCP logo right above? If nobody gets emotional about cars, we would not be having this conversation because this site would not exist.

So where are the Lada entries ?

Come on Wouter, lets not get too misty-eyed over this.

THe "passion" is for some cars.

SERIOUSLY find me anyone to put there hand up and say they would pay for a Morris Marina ????

Would you pay to go visit a Honda Civic ricer convention ? AND provide a report on it ?

I'm all for cars, ive' got more than most ... but lets be REALISTIC
UCP is fantastic because it DOES have passion for some of the great cars.
But dont' try to make out it spreads to everything

[henk4]

wait, does it strike anyone that porsche maybe gave clarkson the 911 as a mission to try and destroy it to prove how tough it is?

do you still get emotional when he destroys a Lada?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3xoRQd0dLk

as so often he missed the point completely. The Lada was based on (in fact a direct continuation of) the Fiat 124, which, many years before most of you were born was chosen European car of the year of 1966. It subsequently served a trainer car for yours truly to get his license.
To now claim that this is communist crap makes a mockery of Mr. C's historic perspective. Anybody surprised?
I can also tell you from very hands-on experience that in many countries people would be very happy to have been presented with that Lada, as it is avery simply car that almost everybody can repair (out of necessity, but that is another matter).

It is just the fun of pure destruction which bothers me. You might want to call it vandalism or hooliganism, just to serve the ratings. Bad taste...no culture.