Best Asian High-end Car/Supercar (2008)

[Ferrer]

What'd you vote for for best Asian High-end/Supercar then Ferrer other than the GT-R?

Has anyone read this month's Evo?

And clutch, as I said, the IS-F is simply nothing special.

I don't know honestly.

Probably I'd have to vote for it. Even if I don't like it at all.

[Kitdy]

Hey Kitdy... I'm just wondering... What do you have against the IS-F...

It's a nice car... Sure, it has flaws such as the 8-speed gearbox and the hard-ride... but overall, it's nice...

I don't claim to speak in absolutes many htings really, I have not driven it or it's competitors but based on what I have read, it is lacking somewhat when it comes to the bench set by it's German competitors - that is my problem. I am not saying that it can't be the best for this award as it could be the worst in it's class but still the best for this award, but I doubt it as there are so many other Japanese cars and with the GT-R out I could not justify voting for it.

Visually, I think it is not very appealing modest like every other Lexus I have ever seen (this is not an exaggeration).

All I think it has on it's competitors is the 8-speed.

Looking back at the reviews, it wasn't as "bad" as I thought but it still lost.
Here's two comparos:


Road and Track

Car and Driver

So as for what you said about straight line speed, (at least to 60 mph) the IS-F may not even be faster than the M3 and was slower than the C63. In the R/T test it was second most expensive base price, second heaviest, 3rd most powerful. It had good torque however and a good ride - but as the C/D test says, not as good as the M3.

I don't know honestly.

Probably I'd have to vote for it. Even if I don't like it at all.

I think it takes a person of character to vote for a car that they know is the "best" even if they don't personally like it - realising it's impact and the like. I dunno if it'd do it, but I'd like to think that if a really good (yes, again) boring FWD econobox was out, I'd vote for it, but I am doubtful.

[Ferrer]

I think it takes a person of character to vote for a car that they know is the "best" even if they don't personally like it - realising it's impact and the like. I dunno if it'd do it, but I'd like to think that if a really good (yes, again) boring FWD econobox was out, I'd vote for it, but I am doubtful.

I think I'm exactly there. I don't like the GT-R, it just too much of a computer on wheels. I personally think that the other high performance Nissan unveiled this year (the 370Z) is far more enjoyable. And it does have other good points, like being lighter and smaller than its predecessor.

But enjoyment shouldn't compute as highly as other factory when choosing the COTY (the same as personal preference I mentioned in the other thread). As a result the GT-R is probably a better and more worthy contender for the COTY award.

[wwgkd]

Yes, and unfortunately it seems the latest styling trends are making cars look bloated, over-designed, and ugly. They all look lethargic and fat, and quite frankly most new cars have gotten unnecessarily overweight. Also, it seems manuals are a dying breed as well, and I refuse to embrace this manu-matic/flappy paddle/tap-shifting faux-manual culture.

Well, a lot of the extra weight is coming from crash safety regulations. Plus, people keep wanting more luxury features in their car. They don't just want it to drive, they want it to do all kinds of other stuff and harass the car manufacturers when they don't include these features. It does add up.

[roosterjuicer]

ill say the same thing i said in the American high end car category....

The voting is over, there is no need for debate. the GTR is hands down the best car coming out of japan right now nothing is even close.

[Kitdy]

I think I'm exactly there. I don't like the GT-R, it just too much of a computer on wheels. I personally think that the other high performance Nissan unveiled this year (the 370Z) is far more enjoyable. And it does have other good points, like being lighter and smaller than its predecessor.

But enjoyment shouldn't compute as highly as other factory when choosing the COTY (the same as personal preference I mentioned in the other thread). As a result the GT-R is probably a better and more worthy contender for the COTY award.

Props to you. I'd have to drive them both, but I may well prefer the 370Z as well - it is lighter and still packs a punch and as you say, it does not have the gizmos. I am not sure if I would like the gizmos or not though - I think riding on rails on the GT-R with the fancy AWD system would be fun but the sheer mass of the thing I think would detract some enjoyment.

[wwgkd]

Props to you. I'd have to drive them both, but I may well prefer the 370Z as well - it is lighter and still packs a punch and as you say, it does not have the gizmos. I am not sure if I would like the gizmos or not though - I think riding on rails on the GT-R with the fancy AWD system would be fun but the sheer mass of the thing I think would detract some enjoyment.

I have to agree with that. I tend to like the simpler cars, well except for the scuderia, and while I do think all that technology is an achievement I don't think a car should drive itself.

Everyone keeps saying it's great just because it weighs so much and is still fast. It is impressive, but is it really a good thing to reward someone for building an overweight car? What could it have achieved with less weight? Throwing a bunch of electronics onto a car isn't necessarily a better engineering feat than building a car that fast without them.

[Ferrer]

Everyone keeps saying it's great just because it weighs so much and is still fast. It is impressive, but is it really a good thing to reward someone for building an overweight car? What could it have achieved with less weight? Throwing a bunch of electronics onto a car isn't necessarily a better engineering feat than building a car that fast without them.

You raise a very good point. The fact that the GT-R is seriously overweight definitely is a argument against its chances of winning. Bigger isn't always better. And more isn't always needed or wanted.

I guess in the end it's all a matter of philosophy. Either you are for the technologically advanced complex car, or you prefer the more back to basics simpler approach. The ZR1 or the ACR being an example of the later.

Even so, that doesn't detract from the fact that the GT-R is an amazing car and completely deserves at least a COTY nomination. That doesn't mean it's perfect though.

This can also be linked we something that crossed my kind. What if the Volt (or the Tesla Roadster or the Fisker Karma) were available for nomination and voting? Should we really be nominating and voting them from the car enthusiast point of view? Or are they just a transportation device? In my opinion there should be a line where the driving experience is so diluted that they shouldn't be considered cars anymore. But where do we place the line?

[Kitdy]

Those electric cars may be worthy - but I think at first their green credentials need to be evident - how green are electric cars? It's hard to measure really and depends where they are being run and built. The revolutionary aspect of them needs to be recognized as COTY material I think. When the Beetle came out it was nothing special from the enthusiasts point of view but certainly should be considered for COTY - I think the same could be said of the 2CV or Model T or Mini. They were groundbreaking and brought cars to the people, a car like the Volt could bring electric cars to the people.

[Ferrer]

Those electric cars may be worthy - but I think at first their green credentials need to be evident - how green are electric cars? It's hard to measure really and depends where they are being run and built. The revolutionary aspect of them needs to be recognized as COTY material I think. When the Beetle came out it was nothing special from the enthusiasts point of view but certainly should be considered for COTY - I think the same could be said of the 2CV or Model T or Mini. They were groundbreaking and brought cars to the people, a car like the Volt could bring electric cars to the people.

But all those cars while innovative share common traits. They have gears, and engines that can be revved. They might not be built from an ethusiast's point of view but they can be enjoyed by enthusiasts.

I'm not sure that's the case with electric cars. They definitely present a conflict in my idea of what makes a car good. Therefore while I acknowledge them as innovative and groundbreaking (and as such COTY material) my petrolhead side just can't get through voting them.

I certainly wouldn't know what to do.

[Kitdy]

Ok well the Tesla for example I think can be enjoyed from a enthusiast's point of view - maybe not your view with your ultra-pure manual-or-the-highway view (which I respect) but by many others surely, the Fisker too is suppsed to be quick?

As for the Volt or Prius I dunno really.