2010 Monaco Grand Prix (May 13 - 16)

**cmcpokey** · 05-17-2010, 08:47 AM

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGbnOCif9lE]YouTube - Schumacher vs Alonso Monaco GP 2010 last lap[/ame]

ok, watching this way too many times in a row you can see a few things. the green lights are flashing and the green flags are waving. there is the line extending across the track just after the yellow line for pit entry starts, and Schumi has his nose behind Alonso's at this point, and doesn't get past him until they are both in the corner. so i'm calling it a good pass.

**Matra et Alpine** · 05-17-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by cmcpokey

ok, watching this way too many times in a row you can see a few things.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/937496-post40.html
The BBC clip at 0:50 shows the rear view where all the facts are easier to spot and confirm timing etc.

**Badsight** · 05-17-2010, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Rockefella

It's no surprise that the most interesting portion of thr grand prix is the legality of Schumacher's pass over Alonso. I used to be F1 crazed and would watch it live at obscene hours of the night. Now I barely watch it in my free time on the DVR.

thats a little unfair . monarco is always a procession

the quality of racing in F1 picked up last year & this year has had some great battles go on in the 4 races so far

**wwgkd** · 05-17-2010, 09:15 PM

With all the evidence and if you read the rules, I say the only way this is not a pass (note that every other car took off like it was a live race) is if there was a screw up on the part of the marshals and it was supposed to end under safety car. But then it's not Schumachers fault, so put him back where he was before the pass and have an end to it. Otherwise, it was clearly a good pass and you should give him 6th place.

I actually thought there was a fair bit of excitement this season, just usually at the beginning to middle of the race and by the end the battle for leader was generally over. When that happens in other racing series people just focus on the battles further back in the pack and there's not all this hooplah over it, though.

**S.O.S** · 05-18-2010, 01:51 AM

Well done Webber, that's back 2 back wins.

Schumacher made an very opportunistic pass, and from watching it live seemed fine.

**torque55** · 05-18-2010, 06:13 AM

the question is if the driver in front (Alonso) makes a mistake, are the drivers behind obliged to back off and wait for him to get back inline, and possibly in that particular corner have a pileup ?

those marshals should address the saftey measures first, rather than penalise an opportunistic and fair overtake. Did they forget how Alonso passed Massa in the pit entry ?
Also, weather the FANS would prefer boring finishes or the kind of manoveur executed by Schumacher.
more & above having Hill;s input on that particular incident is rather STUPID.

**fpv_gtho** · 05-18-2010, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by wwgkd

With all the evidence and if you read the rules, I say the only way this is not a pass (note that every other car took off like it was a live race) is if there was a screw up on the part of the marshals and it was supposed to end under safety car. But then it's not Schumachers fault, so put him back where he was before the pass and have an end to it. Otherwise, it was clearly a good pass and you should give him 6th place.

Would be an interesting situation if it did turn out the marshalls screwed up. Looking at the penalty you'd think it was intended to be a safety car finish, and therefore despite the safety car pulling the cars have to remain single file to the finish, as per the rules. Looking at where Mercedes are coming from with the green flags though, it makes it out like the safety car was simply called in on the final lap and therefore leaving those few hundred metres of racetrack active.

Australia '09 had the safety car finish, but also with yellow flags still waving. That was also with the previous rules for the safety car line. Whether they restore Schumachers position to just behind Alonso (which IMO would be the fairest outcome given the seeming comfusion) or leave the penalty, they also need to clarify the flags getting waived for a safety car finish, and if it hasnt already been clarified, if the safety car coming in on the final lap is an automatic safety car finish without needing to be declared so.

**RacingManiac** · 05-18-2010, 07:14 AM

There is that rule regarding a safety car finish, there is also a rule(40.4 or something) that spells out that the flag and the SC sign will be displayed for the duration of the safetycar period. Which I think is the point of contention since the steward ruled it as a safetycar finish thus its still a safetycar period. But the flag and sign was not displayed thus it can be argued that it was no longer SC period and thus between the line and the start finish its "green" and thus free to race. AFAIK only F1 made this whole SC deal so complicated.....

I think Hill is actually not that much "guilty" of anything. He was there but he was suppose to provide a driver's view, but he is no rule expert(neither were any of the driver stewards before him), so he is bound to not be fully verse in the full interpretation of the rule as written. I am sure given chance to view both points someone like Hill may be swing either way.

As some skeptics have often said about F1, the rules were made intentionally vague so the "few" who welds power can influence the results.....this might just be par for course....

**twinspark** · 05-18-2010, 07:22 AM

Mercedes has decided not to appeal the penalty, as the stewards had understood their interpretation of the situation.

So, as far as I understand, it was a safety car finish. According to Mercedes, the FIA has agreed to further discuss 40.13, probably to make it clear what kind of signaling there's supposed to be when the race is going to end under SC.

**RacingManiac** · 05-18-2010, 08:55 AM

I am sure if they are in more direct fight for any championship(or points) the appeal will be more vigorous, as such they are using this as a learning opportunity...for both sides...

**Matra et Alpine** · 05-18-2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by torque55

the question is if the driver in front (Alonso) makes a mistake, are the drivers behind obliged to back off and wait for him to get back inline, and possibly in that particular corner have a pileup ?

THe rules are it's racing again once the white safety car line is crossed.
As was clear, they crossed it.
In racing if a driver in front screws up then as a driver it is your DUTY to take advantage and overtake.

more & above having Hill;s input on that particular incident is rather STUPID.

Seriously ?
MOST mistakes with stewards and marshall screw ups in the past that then were over-ruled or clarified was becausethose looking at it had NO DRIVING/RACING experience. So asking them to decide if a driver was making an unsafge maneouvre or blocking was impossible. Drivers are new to the team now and are very welcome for it.
I'm not sure why you've got such a negative on Hill's involvment ??
It's not HIS decision, he is only there as another input to the meeting.

Originally Posted by twinspark

Mercedes has decided not to appeal the penalty, as the stewards had understood their interpretation of the situation.

So, as far as I understand, it was a safety car finish. According to Mercedes, the FIA has agreed to further discuss 40.13, probably to make it clear what kind of signaling there's supposed to be when the race is going to end under SC.

Yep, as said way back.
Just I think it was wrong to penalise Schumacher over something they NOW say they will clarify so it can't happen again.
As said, If Mercedes had been anywhere near any chance of competing for anything this season it woudl ahve been fought.
So the WRONG action is getting taken for the wrong reasons

**twinspark** · 05-18-2010, 10:52 AM