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Thread: CdocZ's questions about the military

  1. #1
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    CdocZ's questions about the military

    Hey guys, sorry I've been lurking for so long, college has been getting in the way of life a bit. Since I graduate this December, I've been thinking of possibly doing the military, among several other options, for my first forays into the real world. I know some of you have been in the US armed forces and perhaps the armed forces of other countries as well, and figured I would ask around here for any info and advice you guys might have.

    At this point I have mostly looked into the Marine Corp, and read just about everything I could find readily available. I am definitely willing to consider the other branches, just haven't had time to look into them as much just yet (will start looking into the army next).

    As far as what I would want to do, I am not entirely sure. I know the USMC has a Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) for cybersecurity (which is what I'd want to get a job in if I didn't do military), and a few others in related things like network administration and the sort. However I am not entirely sure I want to do a whole lot of that in the military, should I go military. I am also not dead set on either enlisting or going in as an officer (an option for me since I will have a bachelor's degree), and will probably decide that after talking to more people + recruiters.

    So that is the introduction, now for some questions!
    First off, people in the military - what do you do, what does it entail?

    Also, I can imagine getting stuck with the same group of people for anywhere from a month to an entire year at a time, working, eating, sleeping with the same group, can either make for some incredibly close friends or regular hating of everything that moves. How do you deal with the latter, and does it happen that often?

    I have tried to find information on changing MOS's, and it seems like within a set of MOS's it is fairly easy. For example, it appears simple to go from one of the network administrator positions in the communications set of MOS's to the cybersecurity one, or from an infantry rifleman to a machine gunner. Any idea on how hard it would be to switch entirely from say, infantry to communications or something of the sort?

    Another question is how leave works. When you take leave, how do you get off the base and to wherever? Like could you take whichever military transport flight was going closest to your final destination, or would you just get a shuttle to the local airport and from there you are on your own? Can you break your leave up, as in take 10 days off at one point, and 10 days off at another point within the same year?

    Lastly, I have been trying to find information on post-military expected income, or some equivalent of how colleges and universities keep track of what the average student within one major or discipline can expect to make after they graduate. So far, the only information I have found for post-military earnings related to pensions and health care/life insurance. Is there any data on, say, "the average person who did this MOS/track and this many years of service is making $xxx per year, now"?

    Thanks in advance for any answers or extra suggestions/advice anyone might give! Hope this doesn't look too long winded/tl;dr, heheh.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

  2. #2
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    Interesting to hear you're thinking about the military.

    I was thinking about going into the military for an incredibly steep discount on medical school... until I realized how much time it would take for me to repay the military for their huge scholarship. I decided against it in the end.

    I have absolutely no information about the military, but I think the Air Force would be the branch to look at if you're into cyber security stuff.

    Cyber Surety - airforce.com

  3. #3
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    My suggestion is to stay the hell away from the military. You actually cannot put a price on freedom; get into whatever field you want by hook or by crook, but not by sword and gun.

    Most militaries seem to spend the majority of their time killing civilians in impoverishment countries as opposed to doing any good.

    Keep your freedom, keep your sanity, and keep your soul; stay away!

  4. #4
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    Kitdy - it is less about fighting for freedom, and more a variety of other, personal reasons. One of the reasons I am more considering the idea now is that after Iraq and Afghanistan, chances are America won't be so keen on getting involved in such a situation again.

    NSX - good find, definitely a great spot to start with for looking into the air force as that sounds a lot like what I would want to do with technology.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

  5. #5
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    Ultimatecarpage.com forums - View Profile: cmcpokey

    try to contact him through a PM, he is currently serving in Japan AFAIK.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    Ultimatecarpage.com forums - View Profile: cmcpokey

    try to contact him through a PM, he is currently serving in Japan AFAIK.
    ...... and according to his facebook updates he hates it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko_Fx View Post
    ...... and according to his facebook updates he hates it.
    probably spoiled in Monterey
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  8. #8
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    Logged on while checking our Wouter's latest offerings on the front page. Lo and behold I have a PM. I am here to offer my sage wisdom on military service. Or blather on about it a bit.

    First off, Cyber Security is a huge growing field in all of the services. There is a lot of expansion, though much if it is coming from within the services: commissioning enlisted personnel, officers changing designators/MOSes. The Navy and Air Force have the largest dedicated units, though the other branches do as well.

    Since you are finishing your degree, I expect you would want to go in as an officer. Do that. The pay and benefits are much nicer. There is an application process, time spent at OCS, and additional schools before you ever get to do your job. But that's true no matter what field you go into. If you are in the Navy, we send you to get your Masters (usually in Monterey) after a few years of service, and I am sure the other services do the same thing.

    Cost/benefit analysis for each service:
    Navy: Best locations. Lots of opportunity to serve overseas NOT in the middle east. Built in training programs and certifications that carry over to civilian life. Large CS community that operates fairly independently of the fleet at large, also closely affiliated with Intel. Serving on ships is not required in the community, so you can be stationed at shore facilities your entire career. But the navy likes to move its sailors around the world, hence I am in Japan.
    Air Force: Best quality of life. Shortest deployments by a long ways. Also a large community. Crappy locations, with less ability to travel. But you can stay at a location or two for a long time.
    Army and Marine Corps: Worst locations. Do you like sand? Dealing with Soldiers and Marines can be trying at times. Marine officers are some of the most professional people I have ever worked with, the enlisted, much less so. The Army is some of the worst, at all levels. Their Cyber Security establishments are more designed for mobile networks (not phones) and have a different focus.
    Coast Guard: Don't forget about them. Small service, tiny community, mainly focused on the drug trade, and domestic threats. They do not have the world wide presence that the other services do, so travelling around the world is much less common, but happens. State side bases EVERYWHERE. I am not sure about the specific locations for the CSF, but they don't really have too many crappy places to be stationed.

    There is a lot of research to be don to really decide. And it takes time to filter through all of it. Talk to a local Officer Recruiter (usually one or two in a State, and I forget where you live) and they can give you more specific details. For the Navy, check out the US 10th Fleet. (CS has been given the same level of attention as major operational fleets of ships and planes.)

    As for me. I had a nightmare jo, working for a nightmare boss. I was actually recently fired at at that job though still in the Navy fighting for essentially a wrongful termination. I am much better now, post firing, and just last week my first child was born. If I hadn't been fired, I would have been on deployment and missed her birth. I have had my issues in the last year, but I still love the Navy as an organization. Japan is frustrating as hell. It is an astonishing place though mostly in how astonishingly out of date it is. And how racist and isolationist it is. Americans get a bad rap for that, the Japanese are far worse.

    And spending 2 1/2 years in Monterey ruined me from everywhere. Luckily I own a house there, so it will give me reasons to go back all the time and check up on it...

    Hit me up on facebook/cmcpokey, I don't come around here all that much since i mainly read about car stuff these days instead of actively participating is discussions. Kinda boring, but, eh, I'm getting old. No offense Pieter.
    Honor. Courage. Commitment. Etcetera.

  9. #9
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    Congratulations on the birth of your daughter pokey. I hope things with the navy and your civvie career turn out good in the end. Godspeed!

  10. #10
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    I entertained this notion as well. I am sure you know that if you pass all the preliminaries, you go in basically as a 2nd Lieutenant, commissioned officer, with your degree. It depends a little bit on what degree you have; the Air Force, for instance, told me up front they have basically no use for my degree.

    That gives you the best of all worlds: officer pay isn't bad, particularly with some tenure even if you stay at 2nd lieutenant. Health coverage is second to none. And don't forget about the benefits if/after you get out. Also the work isn't too bad. Of course, you have to remember that no matter your rank or MOS you ARE property of the US Government, and you are expected to act as such. Activities outside your work life there will also be heavily judged, so stay away from booze, loose women, etc. which would cause any damage to your reputation at all. It's a lot of old-fashioned criteria they look at; being married is a big boost, and even how your wife interacts with the other military wives is looked at. Like I said, your life is at the mercy of the United States Federal Government.

    Even if you don't make 2nd Lt., you could go in as a Warrant Officer which has its own benefits. You get to boss around the non-coms without a lot of the full commissioned officer responsibilities. Of course the pay isn't quite as good but again with tenure generally tends to keep up, but it's a nice middle ground, acceptable I think if you really want a certain branch of the military which will not commission you right away. It's also a stone's throw for a promotion.

    There are some great benefits. I mentioned the medical care which is about as good as you can get, but of course you can life on-bas, free, or opt to use the housing allowance. The GI bill benefits you after your tenure. And the discipline and skills you learn will server you for the rest of your life. Some of the downsides I have heard are that some employers, after you get out, might consider your skills to be either outdated or otherwise not applicable. I wouldn't worry about this too much; my brother in law, after being retired due to medical reasons as a 1st Lt. from the USMC got a job 2 months later as a contractor pulling $100k/yr at the age of 26. Not too bad. BUT...his wife was arrested for drunk driving months before he got out, and it's generally suspected that's why his disability claim was not only expedited, after two years of waiting, but was finalised with rather lower benefits than he suspected.

    In all I say go for it. But, be prepared to put yourself and any family you might have as second to your job - it'll be a short ride otherwise.

    Like you, my decision revolved less around keen patriotism and more around some of the advantages of a government career. Nonetheless, if you pull the trigger (pun halfway intended), I salute you and thank you in advance for your service, as I try to do for anyone professing a military background.
    Last edited by jcp123; 02-16-2013 at 02:50 PM.
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