That's true. Nothing more needs to be said. That '67 Ferrari ran 40-60 mph in 3.5 seconds and that '64 Cadillac in 3.7 seconds. End of story!Originally Posted by Kitdy
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That's true. Nothing more needs to be said. That '67 Ferrari ran 40-60 mph in 3.5 seconds and that '64 Cadillac in 3.7 seconds. End of story!
'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.
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My parents have one of these but it's the four. Looks like I won't be getting them bitches and mad respektz.
I'm dropping out to create a company that starts with motorcycles, then cars, and forty years later signs a legendary Brazilian driver who has a public and expensive feud with his French teammate.
Furniture
See post #27.
Which is what happens when you go out with friends and have some beers.
Or something.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
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You could always just put a V6 badge on it. Bitches love badges.My parents have one of these but it's the four. Looks like I won't be getting them bitches and mad respektz.
Life's too short to drive bad cars.
Fanatic
Or I could go hook up with my somewhat occasionally douchy-friend from high school who(se mother) bought a V6 SE. SHEET HE GOT SPORT SUSPENSION AND A V6. Hopefully I can buy it for a cheap so he can upgrade to a salvage-titled Scion TC with Lamborghini doors. I talked him out of that.
I'm dropping out to create a company that starts with motorcycles, then cars, and forty years later signs a legendary Brazilian driver who has a public and expensive feud with his French teammate.
Novice
do you know why they made the switch from the high compression engines on those bigger luxury cars?
really impressed the cadillac kept up with the ferrari on that race though.
Last edited by henk4; 07-18-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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I would say the compression was raised higher and higher for more power.
Cadillac had 10.0:1 in 1957. By 1959, it was up to 10.5:1 and stayed at that level all through the '60s. 1956 Cadillac had 9.75:1. Lincoln and Chrysler probably had similar ratios for those years.
Yes, I think it is impressive.really impressed the cadillac kept up with the ferrari on that race though.
'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.
Novice
that makes sense. thanks for the response. did you know those figures off the top of your head, or is there a place to go for power figures like that on cadillac or other brands? thanks
js
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Most of the figures I knew from memory; a few I looked up in one of my Cadillac books (the earlier figures).
There is probably a place to find the figures but I just check my literature collection.
'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.
Rookie
Car & Driver, Road & Track, Car Life, and a few other mags back in the day usually performed 4-6 runs in their 0-60 tests, and published the average times. I cannot say for certain if they performed the same many runs for every speed test from 0-30 mph to 0-100 mph, but, they often done back to back tests for consistency.
Sometimes, they would do tests over again if they were not certain of an individual automobile running at its outmost. Usually the better mags like those cited above let the reader know if there was any issues in this regard.
I can tell you that these same mags never performed flat 'pedal-to-the-metal' speed shifts. They would difinetly let up on the excellerator pedal and shift rather than chance over-revving the engine and bending the pushrods, or ultimately blowing up the engine. Other mags like Hot Rod and Car Craft, Super Stock & Drag Illustrated did in fact many times perform speed shifts as a matter of routine.
You must remember that oftentimes, the manufacturers had a PR man onsite observing those tests, in case something went awry. In the case of the very hottest test cars like the GTO, the 'man' himself, Mr. Jim Wanger's was there with his cadre of Royal Pontiac speed czars ready and willing to perform last minute checkups in order for that car to perform at its outmost ability. Ford, GM, and AMC were the same when it came down to testing the 'big-boys.'
As a matter of course, the standard road test in none performance cars like the Cadillac, was done more leisurely. Big heavy vehicles were less prone to excessive wheel spin so the chance of ruining accelerative tests was not as big an issue. Same can be said when testing economy cars.
I am not surprised with the power of the 1964 Cadillac. I drove one way back and it was a true sleeper for such a big heavy automobile. If you were to look back at some of those tests in Popular Mechanics and Popular Science, you would also notice that gas mileage up to 40 mph was often very good for such cars. I am thinking about the 1963 Popular Mechanics test on a 1963 Cadillac, whereby the testers got as much as 20-22 mpg at 30-40 mph steady-state driving on rural roads.
This was possible for several reasons. High compression, high gearing (low numerical numbers) and high torque at low speeds, gave outstanding performance. OEM camshafts were also designed for very high torque as opposed to top end power on luxury type cars. After the mid-sixties, excellent 3-speed automatic transmissions (GM Turbo Hydra-Matic 400, Ford C6 & FMX) contributed to overall efficiency. Chryslers 727 Torque-Flite was out since 1957.
Like many of you suggested in the defense of the Ferrari, testers perhaps could have wrung an extra tenth or so out of the car, if they had kept their foot in it, but, the same might have held true for the Caddy as well. Many times, a slower car might have an advantage at lower speeds especially off-line from say, 5-60 mph, or, in the case of the Ferrari vs. Caddy test, where times are very similar for otherwise dissimilar vehicles. Look at some of the modern tests where mags list the 5-60 mph runs and see what I mean.
Of course, today in the case of very high powered cars you have computer diagnostics that limit wheel spin and so forth, which might actually hamper take-off, I don’t know. A few years back testers found that such cars were quicker if you defeated the traction control features. On a high traction drag strip that might be the way to go. On the other hand, in the real world of city streets traction control may be more beneficial. In the case of my Buick Regal GS, taking the Traction Control off and turning on Performance Shift actually gives you better acieration and quicker times, as long as you do not overwhelm the tires with excessive wheel spin. Hope this helps!
Terry
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You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".
Rookie
I am the same way Fleet. My memory usually serves me well. I do have an ongoing database with literally hundreds, of road tests dating back to the twenties. I gleaned many of the tests and specs from several sources on the internet, but, most of them are from my collection of magazines and books.
I have approximately 38,000 picture documents on my laptop with nothing but road tests and various driveline articles on cars and bikes. I also have several thousand other documents that I have to go through in order to update my (excel) database.
Once it is updated to the present, I plan to upload it unto a website of my own so that fellow enthusiasts like us can have access to it, for research purposes. My database is set up to automatically compute gross and net horsepower from the cube root relationship of total race weight and mph. I make use of three different formulas including Hales.
Doing so allows me to arrive at instant horsepower specs that correlate to all years of cars not just pre-72, or vise-versa. Only snag is actual race ready weight of the vehicles. Oftentimes in the old days, car magazines never knew the actual weight of the vehicle in question, and relied upon manufacturer’s specs which were not accurate until well into the eighties, and sometimes the nineties.
At one-time, manufacturers and car mags used Shipping Weight, Curb Weight, and Test Weight interchangeably, which was no use to the reader. I often see Hales Formula used on various sites, including this one, and the figures are obviously flawed because the test weight was / is not accurately measured in the test procedures. This is particularly true in 60s and 70s road tests. Ah, but we have a long way to go don’t we Fleet? Keep the old tests and /or comparsions coming for purposes of discussion. There is always room for something to be learned by all of us.
Terry
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You know that you have it made, when you want for nothing, ask for everything, and receive exactly what you "deserve".
Fanatic
Yes, I really appreciate and am glad there were so many road tests back then. Some will say they were biased or the cars were not stock (true in some cases, but certainly not all), but magazines like Road Test, Car Life, Motor Trend were usually honest tests. Less honest was Car & Driver! (Remember the ridiculous "3.9 seconds" for 0-60 for that '65 Pontiac Catalina 2+2?)
38,000 documents? Wow! I don't have many stored on my computer, just magazines (which can take up a lot of room).
Car Life listed curb and test weight, but of which were useful. I've never found shipping weight to be very useful.
Hale's formula? I know of a certain ex-member (still a member but stopped posting) who swears by it. Which is not good. It's not a 100% accurate method. Or even near 100% accurate. As you said, weights can and did vary.
'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.
Furniture
Back those up on an external drive immediately if you have not done so already. That is a treasure trove of exceptional usefulness and interest!
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Or he can save them on one of those sites like carbonite or mozey (unlimited back up).
'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine, '95 Lincoln Town Car.
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