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  #1  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:00 PM
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Isn't McLaren MP4-12C too heavy and underpowered compared to the F1

MP412-C 3161 lbs 592 hp
F1 2513 lbs 627 hp

The weight difference is too big even tough the MP4 is a slightly bigger car.
Maybe the F1s double central tunnels (it has 3 seats) provide stiffness with low weight?

Maybe you get what you pay?
F1 was about the more expensive car back then while the MP4 is a "bargain" at about $400k
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:24 PM
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Well the world has changed quite a bit. Safety and emissions standards really demand more weight. Not to mention, the F1 didn't offer any profit since they made so few for such a small market. The MP412c appeals to a much wider market and thus will make much more money. McLaren wouldn't survive long if they made a car that didn't make them any money.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:31 PM
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Also, the MP4-12C wasn't a replacement for the F1. Supposedly they are currently designing an F1 replacement.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:06 PM
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F1 = 458 challenger.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:01 PM
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F1 didn't have ABS right?
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthering View Post
F1 = 458 challenger.
I think the F1 would have been on a rung higher than the 458 even if they were launched at the same time.

Other than the Jaguar XJ220 and Porsche 959, I don't think there were any high end super cars of its caliber in its day.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acfsambo View Post
Also, the MP4-12C wasn't a replacement for the F1. Supposedly they are currently designing an F1 replacement.
Exactly that + safety regulations.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
I think the F1 would have been on a rung higher than the 458 even if they were launched at the same time.

Other than the Jaguar XJ220 and Porsche 959, I don't think there were any high end super cars of its caliber in its day.
I think it was a typo.. F1 = attempt at best ever, MP4-12C = 458 (and silliest name) challenger. Different market segments, so pointless to compare F1 to MP4-12C.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:40 AM
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F50 with the McF1 as well and XJ.

The F1 was a supercar; the 458 is not. It is a high end sportscar. The pace of progression has made some dub things like the 458 and 12C supercars, but there is still a semi-vacant rung above them. Ferrari will have the "F70" and McLaren the "F2". Right now, supercars include the Aventador, the Huayara, and the Agera.
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimento View Post
I think it was a typo.. F1 = attempt at best ever, MP4-12C = 458 (and silliest name) challenger. Different market segments, so pointless to compare F1 to MP4-12C.
Maybe it's a typo, I just like to be correct.

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F50 with the McF1 as well and XJ.

The F1 was a supercar; the 458 is not. It is a high end sportscar. The pace of progression has made some dub things like the 458 and 12C supercars, but there is still a semi-vacant rung above them. Ferrari will have the "F70" and McLaren the "F2". Right now, supercars include the Aventador, the Huayara, and the Agera.
Don't forget about the SSC Tuatara too (maybe it actually drives nicely)!

Gumpert Apollo maybe? Or is that just a track day destroyer? A lot of cars blur lines. You could say the Corvette ZR-1 is a super sports car, but that's arguable too. But then we wouldn't have any reason to spend time here no?

Did you mean dumb in your previous statement? I like McLaren being out, since the 12C is made in higher numbers, it keeps the business going and their wits sharp. Heck, maybe they'll expand to something a bit lower, like the Porsche 911.

The 458 Italia, I'm just not a big fan of. Sure it's fast and the numbers are good, I just don't think it looks good.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
I think the F1 would have been on a rung higher than the 458 even if they were launched at the same time.

Other than the Jaguar XJ220 and Porsche 959, I don't think there were any high end super cars of its caliber in its day.
Ah whoops. I mean MP4. You see? This is what happens when you don't sleep and attempt to do large quantities of engineering homework at the last possible minute.

If you ask me, the F1 is MORE impressive when compared to the MP4-12c given what it did and when. The mid-'90s was a time when 0-60 didn't dip under 4 the way it does now, and here's a car that can hit 240 mph without electronic shift, traction control, bendable front aerodynamics, or even ABS.
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Last edited by kingofthering; 03-17-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
Maybe it's a typo, I just like to be correct.



Don't forget about the SSC Tuatara too (maybe it actually drives nicely)!

Gumpert Apollo maybe? Or is that just a track day destroyer? A lot of cars blur lines. You could say the Corvette ZR-1 is a super sports car, but that's arguable too. But then we wouldn't have any reason to spend time here no?

Did you mean dumb in your previous statement? I like McLaren being out, since the 12C is made in higher numbers, it keeps the business going and their wits sharp. Heck, maybe they'll expand to something a bit lower, like the Porsche 911.

The 458 Italia, I'm just not a big fan of. Sure it's fast and the numbers are good, I just don't think it looks good.
"Dub" was a mystery type that was not meant to be there in my post. I would call a ZR1 a supercar, but it's weird because it has lesser variants. Sorta unique. The SSC will be when it comes out, which could take a billion years, and the Apollo is, but I don't think they really sell any. To me, the highest profile niche supercar manufacturer is Pagani because they actually sell some and have lots of press. Koenesigegg seem to have gone quiet, and I feel that Pagani actually deliver cars more than the other manufactureres, which are even smaller in volume (just speculating here).
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthering View Post
Ah whoops. I mean MP4. You see? This is what happens when you don't sleep and attempt to do large quantities of engineering homework at the last possible minute.

If you ask me, the F1 is MORE impressive when compared to the MP4-12c given what it did and when. The mid-'90s was a time when 0-60 didn't dip under 4 the way it does now, and here's a car that can hit 240 mph without electronic shift, traction control, bendable front aerodynamics, or even ABS.
Agreed on the F1- it actually seems pretty liveable (relatively speaking). Heck, my whole family could fit in there.

I'm not sure if it was the case for the McLaren, but oftentimes a lot of cars stop production not because the factory wants to, but because the regulations have changed so much it wouldn't qualify to be built anymore.

The Ford GT is one that I can think of- it ended up being too low for pedestrian safety or something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
"Dub" was a mystery type that was not meant to be there in my post. I would call a ZR1 a supercar, but it's weird because it has lesser variants. Sorta unique. The SSC will be when it comes out, which could take a billion years, and the Apollo is, but I don't think they really sell any. To me, the highest profile niche supercar manufacturer is Pagani because they actually sell some and have lots of press. Koenesigegg seem to have gone quiet, and I feel that Pagani actually deliver cars more than the other manufactureres, which are even smaller in volume (just speculating here).
ZR1 is a weird one indeed- probably the most capable car of the American big 3, if you don't count the Viper, which is coming back next year maybe?

But, even base models are nothing to scoff at- it's nice that it has such a large spread in price range. I don't think any other sports car has that sort of range.

Lamborghini kind of is a super car in my sense too- it has poise.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:26 PM
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The Viper ACR was a supercar. The plain ol' Viper I am not sure. I don't think it had performance on the level of a ZR1 and whatnot.

In fact, the ACR was more like a street legal race car, which could be a burgeoning class unto itself. The Apollo is like that, as are the definite track day street legal specials like the Radical SR8, Donkervoort, Ariel Atom, Caparo T1, KTM X-Bow, etc.

EDIT: The difference being some are specifically made to be track cars, while the ACR is made into a track car from a street car.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
The Viper ACR was a supercar. The plain ol' Viper I am not sure. I don't think it had performance on the level of a ZR1 and whatnot.

In fact, the ACR was more like a street legal race car, which could be a burgeoning class unto itself. The Apollo is like that, as are the definite track day street legal specials like the Radical SR8, Donkervoort, Ariel Atom, Caparo T1, KTM X-Bow, etc.

EDIT: The difference being some are specifically made to be track cars, while the ACR is made into a track car from a street car.
ACR is to the SRT-10 as the GT3 is to the 911. It straddles the line between street-legal and full-on race car.
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