Chevy Volt priced at $41,000 before credit.

[pimento]

Motor Trend got 127MPG in it. The fact that it might get a little push from the ICE when above 70mph is really a non-issue.

[Matra et Alpine]

It was always stupid to say that the engine would ONLY charge the battery and was surprised anyone even thought it was valid.
WHY would you design an extra cycle of losses into the system ?
When the battery is flat it is MUCH more efficient to drive the wheels than it is to convert the mechanical to energy to store and then from energy to mechanical. Each step with losses. Better to drive the wheels with no additional losses and then charge the battery on the fly.

Going to be fun to see the "flat battery" EPA figures. I'll bet they won't allow them to use that as one indicator and yet is the most crucial one to include as a benchmark.

[Kitdy]

Going to be fun to see the "flat battery" EPA figures. I'll bet they won't allow them to use that as one indicator and yet is the most crucial one to include as a benchmark.

I think they were in the low 30s.

[Ferrer]

So really, it's still game for diesel.

[Kitdy]

So really, it's still game for diesel.

I am not so sure. If work and back is less than 35 miles, then you are paying 0 dollars for gas. If you have a 100 mile trip, then you can do 35 odd electric miles, and with relatively untame driving otherwise, 65 with the engine charging the battery.

So that'd be about 2 gallons per 100 miles (Jalopnik got 33 mpg non-electric only), or 50 mpg or 21 km/L or 4.7L/100 km.

I mean, the Volt cost 41k, and I think the US government is throwing in 7.5k -, you are paying 33.5k for this car. That isn't absolutely terrible... Is it?

I mean, someone could dominate a Volt with a light, small, cheap, aerodynamically efficient diesel, but even if this is the case, the Volt is kinda a car for the future.

I don't even know if it's meant to be the best - the Insight and the Prius were the first strike - this and the Leaf are the second.

Maybe you are right - maybe diesels still have it. But this is impressive according to the people I've read that have driven it.

[pimento]

Motor Trend got 127MPG in it.

So that'd be about 2 gallons per 100 miles (Jalopnik got 33 mpg non-electric only), or 50 mpg or 21 km/L or 4.7L/100 km.

Seems there's some wild variation...

[Kitdy]

Seems there's some wild variation...

It is entirely dependent on how far you drive it past it's all electric range.

You drive it within that range it gets "infinite" mpg, and increasingly as you drive past the range the mpg drops asymptotically until it nears 33-odd mpg... With some assumptions in place.

[Matra et Alpine]

I am not so sure. If work and back is less than 35 miles, then you are paying 0 dollars for gas.

ah but that energy is coming from somewhere and it carries a cost.
THAT is the issue they are facing with trying to come up with ways which are fair and reasonable.
Same with pollution.
No point claiming saved the planet if the only option in your area to meet the growing electricity needs is to turn on the ONLY short-term power generation fuel - coal and oil Then lose efficiency by converting and transmitting it
Sadly some politicians just don't understand that and seems most of the TV/media pundits miss the point completely.
"go nucular"

[NSXType-R]

It is entirely dependent on how far you drive it past it's all electric range.

You drive it within that range it gets "infinite" mpg, and increasingly as you drive past the range the mpg drops asymptotically until it nears 33-odd mpg... With some assumptions in place.

Can you plug it in after you're done driving it?

[pimento]

It is entirely dependent on how far you drive it past it's all electric range.

You drive it within that range it gets "infinite" mpg, and increasingly as you drive past the range the mpg drops asymptotically until it nears 33-odd mpg... With some assumptions in place.

According to the article, the 127 was including 'some' driving beyond the electric range.

[RacingManiac]

MT posted their drive log somewhere and they listed how much mile per day and whether it was on full charge. Most of their figures are done on full charge, and between 30-40 miles.

For me, this kinda of range is perfect since I have a 10 mile commute to work, all city driving. I can charge at work if I have to, and I take a drive back to Toronto once or twice a month. I am currently getting maybe 25-27 MPG in my car driving local and 30-32MPG on my highway trip home. If your normal drive is lots of highway for 100+miles, this car probably won't yield as much gain for you vs a diesel...

Matra's point is true for any electric car and most people are ignoring that. Although it is true overall that if the electricity is generated by renewable means, that you will produce less of a carbon footprint. Even if its not though, running electricity off the grid will still net better efficiency, which is a plus regardless...

I don't know if GM's initial claim of 230mpg was under what scenario....its much harder to standardize this kind of claim with these partial electric/hybrid.

[Matra et Alpine]

"renewable" CON
We don't have the tech yet to make reliable always available, turn on when it's needed energy using any renewables.
Scotland is getting covered with wind turbines barely turning for 50% of the time
The "efficiency losses" in transport of diesel to large gas stations is tiny.
it's math where the electricity-grid myth fails on.
The costs to get electricity - in captial and losses - from where it CAN be produced renewably to where it can be used and is needed still makes it nonsene.
PhtoVoltaic cells are enormously polluting to produce and only produce when sunny.
UK's sell-back on energy produced barely makes it break even over 10 years - if it was realistic market prices it woudl be 25
Sadly not there at night
The losses in using hydro pumping are enormous and only make sense when theere is large amounts of "free" energy to use when over -producing for the grid - ie nucular
We're all giong to be charging these things over night ...... oops

[RacingManiac]

You are preaching to the choir here, I am all for Nuclear....

Not all country can have the amount of hydroelecticity dam like Canada, where our primary source is hydro and Nuclear. Solar does nothing for us since the we don't get nearly enough sunlight year round to make sense. Wind is depending on location much like Solar.

There is a big reason why fossil fuel is hard to replace, because it just makes so much sense....

[Matra et Alpine]

yep

[culver]

So apparently the Volt really is a glorified hybrid.

In extreme discharge conditions, the engine will kick in to power the wheels.

How much did GM lie to sell this car? It's not like I'm out to get this car, but pretty much it is a lie of omission.

Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf Fuel Ratings a Struggle for E.P.A. - NYTimes.com

GM didn't lie at all. Some journalists are stupid but GM didn't lie.

It was always going to be a hybrid once the battery was discharged. However, it is a FULL 100% EV until then. Many people are confused about the second motor kicking in. When you are in EV mode the second ELECTRIC motor will kick in at speeds over 70mph. That still means batteries only. The gas motor will NOT help in EV mode and EV mode has no speed limit other than the car's 101mph governed limit.

When in extended range mode the need to reduce the speed of the main electric motor still exists. Since the second electric motor is being used to generate electricity it can't also be used to help the main motor as it does in EV mode. Since the gas motor is connected to the second electric motor and since the electric motor can be connected to the planetary gear, the gas motor sends some amount of torque directly to the wheels. At the same time it is still turning the generator. The total amount of power going to the wheels mechanically vs the generator is still unknown but I suspect most of the engines toque still feeds the generator.